EU. In or out?

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-Ralph-
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by -Ralph- » Fri May 19, 2017 11:29 pm

Fox hunting, school meals, pensioners fuel allowance, £1000 per non EU immigrant employee, refusing to join debates, pissing everyone off by saying strong and stable as often as possible, but giving every indication she as weak as a sloth....
Is the remainer Theresa May on a very clever ploy to loose this election so she doesn't have to go through with Brexit?
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Philiptigerrice » Sat May 20, 2017 6:12 am

Except they haven't brought Fox hunting Back - they're giving MP's a free debate on it - and with any luck they'll ban it forever, in full.
School Dinners - well, my kids get free school dinners (they're entitled through some local policy, although we don't need them, and they actually have a packed lunch) - most of the kids getting them in my locality don't need free dinners, but get them anyway - much of it is a waste of public money.
Winter fuel Allowance - my parents get it - and they generally spend it on a nice meal every year - they're very comfortably well off, and have no need for it at all. So means test it.
Its common sense, and makes more sense than adding massive tax burdens to businesses isn't it?
As for not joining in debates - well good - they're of little value, its like watching a Media Management Class in progress where nobody does anything other than shout slogans at one another and never answer anyones questions - they're a disingenuous Americanism, and the last thing we need is for our own politics to become more presidential...
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Jak* » Sat May 20, 2017 7:56 am

The choice in England is between Lib Dems no Brexit, conservatives hard Brexit and Labour soft Brexit. However many voters will also take into account the other policies, personalities, their traditional allegiances, the way their news media persuades them to vote and possibly local issues. For instance where I live the realistic choice is between a Conservative in favour of Fracking the Derbyshire Dales and a Labour candidate who opposes it.
Given that even the hardest Brexit supporter must now realise that the £350 million for the NHS was a lie and that immigration is not going to reduce radically or rapidly (in fact the drop in immigration post the referendum due to the fall in the pound, the growth of the European economy and perceived xenophobia, has already had a negative impact on our economy) many voters are going to face a dilemma. Even the most optimistic economists expect a serious negative impact on the economy from a hard Brexit at least in the short term, hence the chancellor having a war chest to save up for it.
I tend to agree about the fuel allowance and other allowances for wealthy pensioners, but it obviously depends where you set the limit. None of the parties really seem to be addressing the ongoing issues of an ageing population (which will be made much worse if we sent the working immigrants back and Spain sends our pensioners back) or the massive rise in the population who have mental health needs. In the city I work in the NHS is the secondly largest employer and the mental health services are running a close third. They are only second and third because we have one really large private manufacturing company. In many U.K. cities they are first and second.
I think May's desire to bring back fox hunting is an attempt to win back farmers who are now really worried they are going to lose their subsidies or migrant workforce. I could be wrong, it could just be an appeal to sadists.
Cheers Jak

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by EarthWorm » Sat May 20, 2017 8:45 am

Thing is as long as both sides keep repeating suppositions as if they were facts, the more entrenched each side becomes because they can see how coloured the debate has become.

I.E.:
in fact the drop in immigration post the referendum due to the fall in the pound
(not picking on you jak, you just happened to be the last case of this in the thread)

P.S. for clarity Yes it is a fact that net Immigration fell after the vote, but linking it to the fall in the pound is extremely dubious and probably has very little to do with it, I don't actually know, but neither do you.
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Jak* » Sat May 20, 2017 7:16 pm

You are right we are all quoting second or third hand data, although to be fair I did quote three reasons for the fall in immigration. I generally get most of my news from the radio as I do not normally have time to read newspapers, although I often look at both the Torygraph and the Guardian websites and occasionally the FT although you can only access a small part of it for free. Since Brexit I have also,started getting Private Eye more regularly. I expect one or more of these were the sources for 'my reasons' for that fall in immigration. These all seem reasonably likely to have had an influence to me although there could be well be other reasons that I have not heard of.
Cheers Jak

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by dave448 » Sat May 20, 2017 8:38 pm

Er..i bet the cost of means-testing the winterfuel allowance will exceed the savings made ... with alot of people just refusing to undergo this invasive process
I well remember the tedium of trying to claim child allowance...
sending in phone bills....copying loads of stuff ..took kkin ages
Seems like they are also tryin to hold people hostage on the Brexit thing ..eg you can only vote for me and btw here is a load more shyte ( with no numbers ..apart from 100,000)
The ony plus is that they will be spending most of the next parliament fighting over Brexit ..so most of the other stuff will get lost in the wash
Imo... 8-)

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by qcnr » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:49 am

There is no in or out. Even if you are out, you are in.
Norway...

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Asgard » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:59 pm

Parliament is full of remoaners who will force either a fake Brexit or if they really don't care about the shitstorm it will create, then they might even let a second referendum happen so they can try get the result they wanted all along

TBH, I think if the so called people's vote goes ahead (what a ridiculous concept, we allready fucking had one) then I reckon they may be in for another big shock.
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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Cone » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:08 pm

Asgard wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:59 pm
Parliament is full of remoaners who will force either a fake Brexit or if they really don't care about the shitstorm it will create, then they might even let a second referendum happen so they can try get the result they wanted all along

TBH, I think if the so called people's vote goes ahead (what a ridiculous concept, we allready fucking had one) then I reckon they may be in for another big shock.
I believe we have a real problem looming if a second vote is held.

The conservatives want out but can’t mandate it. Labour is lead by corbyn and direction less. Lib Dem’s a just plonkers followed closely by the greens and now UKIP have gone far right.

So if brexit doesn’t happen where do the betrayed 17million voters go. They have no one to vote for.

Perhaps the conservatives will split into two leaving our political system in ruins. Or worse a large number of people start voting for UKIP then we have a far right party fighting for power like in austria and Germany with the AFP

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Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Jak* » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:59 pm

I guess a lot of leave voters will feel betrayed if there is a second referendum, but as Farage pointed out the first one was advisory. If it were made clear there were three choices, May’s deal, no Brexit or no deal, which even Gove reckons would take about thirty years to see the economic benefits of, people would at least know no what they were voting for. The whole thing has made our politicians a laughing stock. Did we really vote to give back the decision making to that bunch of self serving fools?
I love the irony that some of the same politicians who tell us that we have such economic power that the rest of the world will be queuing up to trade with us, tell us we cannot afford the nhs, the police, decent schools etc.
There are very few members of the commons on either side who have any credibility or authority left.
The people I feel most sorry for those who are still waiting to see if they are likely to have a job come March, although I suppose they can take some comfort in the fact that May could well be unemployed by then as well. :D
Cheers Jak

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