EU. In or out?

Anything goes, and mine's a Guinness.
Dutchgit
Posts: 1406
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 6:28 pm
Location: On the settee.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Dutchgit »

Maybe a lot of people from the EU mainland living in the UK didn't know long before that they weren't allowed to vote ?
(I don't know what timescales were put on this situation)
It'll end in tears I tells ya.
-Ralph-
Posts: 6803
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:16 pm

EU. In or out?

Post by -Ralph- »

Andy, you've just proved my point. You wanted to vote so you registered. You had a reason to do it. You haven't been in the shoes of an EU immigrant to the UK, where the only reason to do it is general elections. So I still pose the question asking you to tell me why almost no EU citizens have done so? On the other foot, why have almost no British ex pats in France or Spain applied for citizenship of those countries? Because they are already EU citizens in an EU country. They even get their pensions and thier health care. They don't need to!

Are you telling me millions of EU immigrants and millions of British ex-pats in the EU have been doing it wrong? And you would have the foresight that they all lack and do it differently?

You cannot compare SA to the EU. You also cant compare other countries around the world and say "whats wrong with that". It's a totally different kettle of fish.

I realise that may be why many of you voted out, because you want to be able to make those comparisons moving forwards after Brexit, but right now today, and for the whole time most of these people have lived here, we have been and still are an EU country.

Now we have a referendum on the very thing that allows them that freedom of movement, but don't give them any voice on the matter.

Disgusting in my opinion, and 23rd of June came as a massive kick in the teeth to all those people who have bought so much to this country and made it their home.

Without the EU many if them wouldn't be here, because if residency, work permits, long term driving licenses, pension, heathcare (the list goes on and on) and voting rights were so much more difficult to sort out, many wouldn't have made the move.

Nothing anyone says will ever change the way I feel about that.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
User avatar
Scott_rider
Posts: 2436
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:47 pm
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Scott_rider »

I completely disagree. Just because there is a freedom of movement and an employment agreement between several countries doesn't give a non citizen the right to vote about sovereign affairs of the country they choose to live and work in regardless of how long they've been there and how much they've contributed. If I had lived in Spain for say, 15 years, I wouldn't t expect to have the right to vote on say, a referendum on getting rid of their monarchy, would I? That's just an example but that would be a matter only for the Spanish.

All western countries have a mechanism where you can become a citizen and then vote on matters such as I have exampled above. It seems very, very straightforward and right, to me.
Suzuki GSX-S1000F...the KTM 450 EXC-R has gone
-Ralph-
Posts: 6803
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:16 pm

Re: EU. In or out?

Post by -Ralph- »

Dutchgit wrote:Maybe a lot of people from the EU mainland living in the UK didn't know long before that they weren't allowed to vote ?
(I don't know what timescales were put on this situation)
Absolutely correct. Between finding out that they couldn't vote and the vote itself, there was insufficient time to apply for citizenship.
"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
-Ralph-
Posts: 6803
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:16 pm

Re: EU. In or out?

Post by -Ralph- »

Scott_rider wrote:I completely disagree. Just because there is a freedom of movement and an employment agreement between several countries doesn't give a non citizen the right to vote about sovereign affairs of the country they choose to live and work in regardless of how long they've been there and how much they've contributed. If I had lived in Spain for say, 15 years, I wouldn't t expect to have the right to vote on say, a referendum on getting rid of their monarchy, would I? That's just an example but that would be a matter only for the Spanish.

All western countries have a mechanism where you can become a citizen and then vote on matters such as I have exampled above. It seems very, very straightforward and right, to me.
So under your theory then you have to be a citizen.

So how come citizens of commonwealth countries were allowed to vote? Regardless of how much they had contributed to this country, or indeed how much they had sucked from it to sent back home.

Here's your commonwealth countries. According to your post they shouldn't be voting on our affairs.

http://thecommonwealth.org/member-countries

So for one set of immigrants to vote, but not another, is an injustice.

This person who's been in the country 3 months, doesn't work and can't speak the language can vote

Image

Most of these who have studied, speak perfect English and worked in the NHS for years can't

Image

Anyone trying to tell me there is justice there is quite frankly deluded.
"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
User avatar
Scott_rider
Posts: 2436
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:47 pm
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: EU. In or out?

Post by Scott_rider »

^...there are 860,000 commonwealth residents in the uk who are eligible to vote due to our historic arrangements around the world which rightly or wrongly we are stuck with. Those people have to be permanently resident in the UK and not just here for work purposes or under a freedom of movement arrangement or a just here to vote. There is a completely different procedure for them proving that they qualify which is way more rigorous than just showing an EU passport at the tunnel.

Irish nationals but permanently resident in the UK can also vote under a reciprocal arrangement with Ireland which enables Brits permanently based in Ireland to vote in their elections. That is a unique arrangement between the two countries again due to historical ties.

That photo is therefore misleading. If anyone thinks that a Greek or a Spaniard or a German should be able to vote in the UK and about UK matters, then I completely disagree.

I would not be able to do so in their countries if the roles were reversed and I wouldn't expect that right either.
Suzuki GSX-S1000F...the KTM 450 EXC-R has gone
hansblix
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: EU. In or out?

Post by hansblix »

Seems like Ralph really hates muslim immigrants , has he not heard of dual nationality . U streotyping a minority who contribute to society and they don't have to justify that to u or anyone, with sending money anywhere isn't that what eu immigrants do and expat British do , it's everyone right to do that , u sound like a edl , bnp , Britain first member . Laws are there for a reason and am glad people like u are not making them . U forget the British history how many commonwealth soldiers died .and that includes far eastern countries , that's why it's called commonwealth.
daveuprite
Posts: 4790
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:47 pm
Location: Limousin France
Has thanked: 2452 times
Been thanked: 3293 times

Re: EU. In or out?

Post by daveuprite »

Horrible discussion, beset with prejudices and intolerance. This forum sometimes feels like something out of the Jim Crow deep south rather than Europe in 2016.
-Ralph-
Posts: 6803
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:16 pm

EU. In or out?

Post by -Ralph- »

Yeah, that's why I was engaged to a Sri Lankan woman for 6 years Hansblix.

One picture of a Burka clad woman to prove a point and you relate that to all Muslim immigrants?

Seems you're the one with a broad brush not me.

BTW my son has dual nationality, but it wasn't needed for this referendum.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
dave448
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:14 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: EU. In or out?

Post by dave448 »

Jim Crow deep south
more stereotyping .. :ohmy:
the thing with democracies is there are no sacred cows.. you're bound to piss off people..
and elections are what they are (<< favourite saying of mine)
B)
Post Reply

Return to “THE PUB”