EU Membership Key Demands

[Ken Shabby]

As a fellow-European (until you have had your referendum, that is) I would applaud GB's leaving: either you're in and committed, or out, and GB has not been committed for a long time, if ever. Back when Maggie T. wanted 'her money back', they should have shown her out politely. At the same time I must admit that the EU suffers from a lack of democracy. Brussel's politicians seem even more disconnected from their grass roots than their colleagues at national level. However, in my view that calls for making the EU truly democratic and halting further expansion, not for abandonding it. We have had 70 years of peace in Western Europe, for the first time since the Roman Empire, and in my mind that counts for something.

But the problem is that nobody's 'committed'...absolutely nobody anywhere wants to be a 'European'.

Also ascribing 70 years of peace to the existence of the EU is a non-sequitir; you have no idea and cannot say that there wouldn't have been peace if the EU hadn't existed.

Also remains to be seen how the great Muslim migration - enabled by EU open borders - is going to play out.

You Gerj could be living in the 16th century again within the next couple of decades...they certainly have no intention of embracing the progressive, secular existence that have been VERY hard-won over the last 400 years since we had The Enlightenmnet that passed them by.

[sidestand]

I think the EU - and Germany & France in particular, need the UK far more than we need them.

The UK imports a lot more from the EU than we export - so there's no way are they going to impose trade restrictions.

I think they'll make a lot of noise & hot air, but when it comes down to it, they'll agree to far more than they currently acknowledge in order to keep us in - if we leave, it will start the rot & be the end of the EU in any case.

Cameron needs be a good poker player & keep his nerve......I think we have the best hand anyway ......and not a lot to lose if they call our bluff & we leave

[scutty]

But the problem is that nobody's 'committed'...absolutely nobody anywhere wants to be a 'European'.

Also ascribing 70 years of peace to the existence of the EU is a non-sequitir; you have no idea and cannot say that there wouldn't have been peace if the EU hadn't existed.

Also remains to be seen how the great Muslim migration - enabled by EU open borders - is going to play out.

You Gerj could be living in the 16th century again within the next couple of decades...they certainly have no intention of embracing the progressive, secular existence that have been VERY hard-won over the last 400 years since we had The Enlightenmnet that passed them by.

I think you're wrong - I know loads of friends and colleagues around Europe that love being European.

Also,yes, we can say we didn't have peace in Europe without the EU because, prior to that, through the whole of history, Europe has been a massive battle ground.

"Great Muslim Migration"? Love that, was that lifted straight out of today's Mail on Sunday?

[Mickdb1]

I reckon most of the "They think its best to stay in EU" are the euro ministers and other hangers on in the euro parliament and organisations. In fact while I am at it.
How come, in a country (UK) that one of the most popular sayings at a workplace is "We have to do better with less", we still have 650 MPs why so many ? I recon in the last war they opted out of elections and just elected the best folks to suit the jobs. Thats my whinge off for today !!. Bloody hot again today in Spain by the way- he he

[-Ralph-]

And the bit about all Muslims living in the 16th century having had enlightenment pass them by. That was priceless Ken.

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[AndyB]

And the bit about all Muslims living in the 16th century having had enlightenment pass them by. That was priceless Ken.

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That cracked me up as well :laugh:

It's only because we failed when we sent the Crusaders over to 'enlighten' them and we still haven't learned that invading countries and forcing your will upon them is a stupid idea.

[moto al]

Some people never learn :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

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[Nigel]

If Cameron`s demands are carved in stone maybe, but I doubt they will do that so I say OUT.

[Mawnanian]

Who are the 'they' that are so worried about us leaving? Maybe a small percentage of workers who'd like the opportunity to come here but the governments? I really don't think so.

I think the majority of other EU governments would sooner we stayed in because when one goes there's a major risk others will do the same within 5 years but we've been viewed as a pain in the arse for years and a few will be glad to see the back of us.

I'm voting to stay in because not only do I enjoy the personal freedom to travel within the EU with no restrictions I also like the fact that when I send some of our techs to work there I don't have to jump through hoops to get permission for them to do their jobs or tell them to say they're on holiday.

Anyone who has worked in the EU and taken advantage of the fact they didn't need a work permit or a residence permit if they were in the job for longer than a very short time but says that shouldn't be a reciprocal right is either stupid or a hypocrite

Membership of the EU at what cost: sovereignty and democracy.

I agree with Andy, and regarding
Sovereignty
As long as I have personal freedom and the economy and infrastructure are run efficiently I don't care who is making the decisions, what their ethnic origin is, what national anthem they sing or what the national currency is called. Regarding personal freedom, particularly the freedom to travel, that is best served by staying in the EU.
Democracy
See above, the geographic location of the government is immaterial. The EU at present leaves a lot to be desired as a democracy, it needs changing but on balance that's not enough reason to leave.
I feel just as far removed from the Westminster bubble in terms of world view, spending priorities and trust as I do from the one in Brussels. At the moment I get more that I want from being part of the EU than I would if we left.

[fullerton]

out and take human rights with it

steve