CRF300 rally?? like

[Cornishman]

Poor suspension (which needs significant improvement and cash)

A lot of people say the same about the T7.

[berin]

I struggle to see where the progress is with the Honda, compared to a Yamaha XT250 (still available brand-new in the USA) or the Suzuki DR350? Or even the XR250L or XL250R or whatever it was?

I've asked this question before here and been informed by indignant owners that the new Honda's benefits are better lighting and modern emissions conformance. But, you can stick a modern LED lamp on pretty much any 12 v bike, and one of the favourite mods on the Honda seems to be changing the exhaust, so it probably doesn't conform to modern emissions any more anyway.

But if you look at the spec sheets...power, weight, gearbox etc, where's the progress?

I must be wrong, mind you, as the Honda 250 sold in huge quantities ...I just can't see where I'm wrong. The better-suspended and cheaper Kawasaki KLX250 only sold in tiny numbers by comparison in the UK.

I just don't get it...after all, the days when Honda was streets ahead of all other makers in terms of quality are long over.

I cannot disagree with that
I fail to see the attraction to the current CRF250/300 L range

* Heavy
* Low power
* Poor suspension (which needs significant improvement and cash)

The Honda XR400R is still a better bike in terms of weight/power and suspension, IMHO

Not often I agree with JB, but likewise I don’t see the point of these Honda’s. Crap suspension, budget cycle parts and less power than Freeride.

However I’d be looking in the direction of a KTM690 Enduro rather than a Tenere, though the Tenere is a perfectly good bike.

Kerb weight of the 690 is 146kg vs 153kg for the Honda 300 rally, suspension is good, 60 odd horsepower so you can fight your way out of a rice pudding, cheap spares, good service interval, loads of aftermarket parts.

Different proposition to the Tenere, which must be better on the road, but I would say the 690 is better on the trails.


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[johnnyboxer]

Poor suspension (which needs significant improvement and cash)

A lot of people say the same about the T7.

That’s true
Just a change of springs (for rider weight) in essence
£200 front and rear for parts … plus DIY and the KYB suspension (good suspension brand) is fairly transformed
With the T700, the suspension units are inherently far better quality and fully 3 way adjustable from the factory (unlike the cheap unadjustable CRF L stuff)

[johnnyboxer]

I struggle to see where the progress is with the Honda, compared to a Yamaha XT250 (still available brand-new in the USA) or the Suzuki DR350? Or even the XR250L or XL250R or whatever it was?

I've asked this question before here and been informed by indignant owners that the new Honda's benefits are better lighting and modern emissions conformance. But, you can stick a modern LED lamp on pretty much any 12 v bike, and one of the favourite mods on the Honda seems to be changing the exhaust, so it probably doesn't conform to modern emissions any more anyway.

But if you look at the spec sheets...power, weight, gearbox etc, where's the progress?

I must be wrong, mind you, as the Honda 250 sold in huge quantities ...I just can't see where I'm wrong. The better-suspended and cheaper Kawasaki KLX250 only sold in tiny numbers by comparison in the UK.

I just don't get it...after all, the days when Honda was streets ahead of all other makers in terms of quality are long over.

I cannot disagree with that
I fail to see the attraction to the current CRF250/300 L range

* Heavy
* Low power
* Poor suspension (which needs significant improvement and cash)

The Honda XR400R is still a better bike in terms of weight/power and suspension, IMHO

Not often I agree with JB, but likewise I don’t see the point of these Honda’s. Crap suspension, budget cycle parts and less power than Freeride.

However I’d be looking in the direction of a KTM690 Enduro rather than a Tenere, though the Tenere is a perfectly good bike.

Kerb weight of the 690 is 146kg vs 153kg for the Honda 300 rally, suspension is good, 60 odd horsepower so you can fight your way out of a rice pudding, cheap spares, good service interval, loads of aftermarket parts.

Different proposition to the Tenere, which must be better on the road, but I would say the 690 is better on the trails.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks

I see the same as you

For 50/50 road and trails in Europe (wide open Pyrenean type trails) I chose the T700

If I was doing more trail (and harder stuff) it would be a 690/701

For me, I wanted a trail worthy twin cylinder bike and the Yamaha suits me

[ErikGustav2]

I struggle to see where the progress is with the Honda, compared to a Yamaha XT250 (still available brand-new in the USA) or the Suzuki DR350? Or even the XR250L or XL250R or whatever it was?


I just don't get it...after all, the days when Honda was streets ahead of all other makers in terms of quality are long over.

I agree with both these statements.

In terms of specifications. My 20 year old NX4 is on pair with the new CRF 300.
The new one is a higher bike. With higher seat, more suspension travel and more ground clearance.
(To high seat for my taste)
So I stay with my bike from 2003.

bild_2022-01-07_222725.png (31.11 KiB) Viewed 2214 times

Quality: I have owned many Suzuki and some Kawasaki.
Quality has never been a problem.
Already the GSX 1100 from 1980 was bullet proof

05.jpg (150.09 KiB) Viewed 2214 times

03_Fotor.jpg (131.88 KiB) Viewed 2214 times

An old NX4 and a new CRF 250L together.
Very similar.
With different technology
No LED display, LED lamps, no ABS, no EFI, no liquid cooling .... on the old one.
Fine with me. Less complex => easier maintenance and less stuff that can break.

[garyboy]

Poor suspension (which needs significant improvement and cash)

A lot of people say the same about the T7.

That’s true
Just a change of springs (for rider weight) in essence
£200 front and rear for parts … plus DIY and the KYB suspension (good suspension brand) is fairly transformed
With the T700, the suspension units are inherently far better quality and fully 3 way adjustable from the factory (unlike the cheap unadjustable CRF L stuff)

obviously the crf250rally is a budget bike that pretends to be an adventure bike with off road ability.
but it is not .. it is a budget bike .. but it is the PRICE wot i bought it for innit.
(its overweight, underpowered, and poorly equipped. .. It need ..a real bash plate (plastic oem is fragile), real hand guards (oem plastic is open with no metal surround) ), real tyres, real fork innards, real rear shock. ..but the service intervals are great and on road ability is very good, if underpowered.)
However i am looking forward to trying it on the trails, as the `too soft` suspension may actually suit my slow careful style... dunno yet.
The crf250L was too tall, but the huge suspension sag of the Rally works for me, as i can tippy toe, and may get it lowered an inch? so is actually closer to my ideal, surprisingly, even though the spec is 1" higher forks and seat, compared to the L.

How many T7's, 690's, 701's do you see for sale, in a dealer showroom, for £4,700 ???

[garyboy]

As ever, Gary, for most dual-sport rides you'll want a support truck loaded with different tyres for the road and trail bits.

As a road-biased compromise, these are good, and not as expensive as 'big name' tyres

https://www.mitas-moto.com/en/products/ ... duro-trail

Original equipment on KTM 690 Enduro, no less!

I now run them on my 950: even the tarmac lanes round here are muddy for most of the year! I used to run Mefo Explorer/Super Explorer which are now difficult to obtain. The Mitas won't last as long, but do grip better.

I've always chosen Pirelli MT21 for my 'true trail' bikes. They are acceptable on the road, good on most dirt except really thick mud, and don't wear out too quickly providing you don't push them hard on the road.

The new kid on the block is the Michelin Tracker...

https://endurotyres.com/michelin-tracker-range/

Reasonable price, and reportedly consistent grip: won't grip as well on the dirt as a new 'proper enduro' tyre but won't wear out so quickly on the road, and the grip doesn't fall off as rapidly as an enduro tyre. Not tried them myself.

I'm now a convert to the Pirelli trials tyre for 'round 'ere'...where it's rock rather than mud. Wales, of course, has more of a mix of the two. You just need to make sure your support truck is adequately equipped!

support truck, Richard? ... I should be so lucky lol .... I usually ride solo, as i am slow and cautious, and a poor oap lol. The Michelin Tracker tyres look great, for off road, but probably too aggressive for my intended general use, as i usually do a lot of road work to get to trails, as i have not got a van. The MT21 i have experience of, and agree with your evaluation. I had them on my DR350 and TTR600 and a few high spirit road ride wipes them out in a very rough way, though slower tarmac rides gives a lot more miles. Their trail use is not very good ... they look the part but slip when across ruts, mud and loose stuff, but great on rocks and harder stuff. Its the tyre that immediately came to mind, for present use, as it would be mostly road, with short trails? I know i would soon dislike their poor squidgy holding. but seem a good compromise?

the new eo7 looks interesting, as the square profile is always what put me off them.

eo9 is a deffo no no, as they gather mud too easily and do side slips.

kc80 ...not sure ... will they act like the eo9?

its going to be a bit of a search for the `right` tyre ... i'm sure there will be one in my huge support truck lol

[garyboy]

T7 new is £8,700 ??
my new used crf250 rally is £4,700 ... slightly over half T7 = 4350?

You are comparing new and used - not a fair comparison
T700 New is £9500 (or whatever discount you can negotiate )
CRF 300 Rally New Is £6100 (not sure what discounts are available)

So the Rallye is 2/3rds of the T700 price wise - but it’s a better bike reckon

the advert i have seen show used prices close to or even more than new (std spec) prices.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bikes/moto ... tenere-700

so my new used Rally is almost half the price of the bikes you mention.?

admittedly, i have to spend a lot of money to get the Rally up to fairly decent spec. but i won't be doing this, except gradually over a few years, probably, lol . .. At least i can chose my own ..bash plate, hand guards, tyres .. gradually .. this year .. to get the basics. Shame really, that Honda sell such `pretend` stuff, as the Rally really does look the part, even if in pretend plastic. .. but i am not complaining, as the bike has a really good service history, souns great, and i can just about toe the ground (more than the L) ... so's i can actually get back out on the trails ... yay !!!

[johnnyboxer]

Poor suspension (which needs significant improvement and cash)

A lot of people say the same about the T7.

That’s true
Just a change of springs (for rider weight) in essence
£200 front and rear for parts … plus DIY and the KYB suspension (good suspension brand) is fairly transformed
With the T700, the suspension units are inherently far better quality and fully 3 way adjustable from the factory (unlike the cheap unadjustable CRF L stuff)

obviously the crf250rally is a budget bike that pretends to be an adventure bike with off road ability.
but it is not .. it is a budget bike .. but it is the PRICE wot i bought it for innit.
(its overweight, underpowered, and poorly equipped. .. It need ..a real bash plate (plastic oem is fragile), real hand guards (oem plastic is open with no metal surround) ), real tyres, real fork innards, real rear shock. ..but the service intervals are great and on road ability is very good, if underpowered.)
However i am looking forward to trying it on the trails, as the `too soft` suspension may actually suit my slow careful style... dunno yet.
The crf250L was too tall, but the huge suspension sag of the Rally works for me, as i can tippy toe, and may get it lowered an inch? so is actually closer to my ideal, surprisingly, even though the spec is 1" higher forks and seat, compared to the L.

How many T7's, 690's, 701's do you see for sale, in a dealer showroom, for £4,700 ???

Enjoy it

[Scott_rider]

Nice one . Post up a report of how you get on with it out on the trails .