Solo touring and off road (e.g. tet), small ADV bike suggestions

[nathanm]

Himalayan for me.

16,000 on mine this year. A few niggles, nothing catastrophic. Heavier than the CRF and not as good on the trails but a more solid all-rounder to me. Plus the fact that you get a nearly new second hand one with the aluminium panniers for between £3300 and £3500 makes it the bargain of the century in my book.

Capable off road, smooth on road. Easy to work on. A bit quirky, and no one can say that you bought one for the image.

[gspod]

I used to think that a “middle weight” 700/800cc, 200kgish bike would be the way forward for me at some stage but I’ve changed my mind. My 1200gs may be 50kgs heavier but it carries that weight very low and I find it a lot more user friendly off road than others I have tried- including an 800gs and KTM950.
I would not take it on narly trails or down through Africa, I haven’t got the skills, so for that I’d take The WR250R. But on unsealed roads likely to be encountered in South America, the Balkans or even in the Stans I’d prefer the 1200 to a middle weight.

[Slowboy]

Crf 250 Rally for me (6'1" 13.0 stone). It carried me up the length of France last year, and all over the place in the UK last year, with around 11,500 miles in total.
This year it's off to Germany for a fortnight in June (dambuster tour and Black Forest) and over to the Dolomites via Switzerland and back through the Alps and France for three weeks in September. Plus the ABR weekend, numerous UK trips and a bit of local riding.

I love it to bits, but I guess you worked that out.

I used to have big motored bikes, but got bored with the weight, the limited opportunities to use the performance and the running costs among other things. I guess I just got bored with them in the end.

What I like most about the CRF, is when you see that track disappearing off into the forest or the mountains, you can take it, confident you can pick it up when you fall down.
I use two Moto Fizz panniers (years old but ace quality) and an Oxford Aquabag. I do travel light though.

[rbailey]

A friend and I had a similar question and, over the last 3 or 4 months of test rides and deliberating, ended up getting a pair of CRF250 Rallys.

Our choice of bikes was virtually identical to yours: Yamaha XT660Z Ténéré, Royal Enfield Himalayan, Kawasaki X300 Versys and SWM 650.

Mike loved the Ténéré as he'd already owned one but the one that I test rode wasn't right... it didn't feel looked after.

The RE Himalayan was my front runner for the whole search but we were a bit cautious about the weight (190 kg) and reliability.

The 300 Versys was a great set-up... except for the engine which was very road-orientated: buzzy as hell and something I wouldn't want to ride off-road.

The SWM was just such an unknown quantity and prices varied between £7,800 and £5,600...

I the end, the Honda was just an afterthought: I saw the price of a new CRF250L and thought "that's cheap, let's go and have a look". Our local dealer had one L and one Rally on the showroom floor so we spent a good hour or so just sitting on them, bouncing the suspension, chatting to the sales guys. Then we popped across the road to the pub for a chat and a drink. 45 minutes later, we were back in the dealership shaking hands with the salesman for a pair of 250 Rallys for £5 under £5k each + heated grips.

We picked the bikes up last Friday and immediately put 70 miles on the just hooning round the local lanes like teenagers

Our trip is going to be 25,000+ miles through Europe and Asia.

Great post, thanks for the response. I was also edging toward this option, but not test ridden anything yet... A couple of quick questions...
1. Have you done any kind of distance on it yet? What kind of cruising speed is good, and what tank range you getting?
2. Your 25K trip sounds bonkers! What you thinking for luggage? I have heard Giant Loop is a good option, but not sure if you need some kind of rack to mount it to...

Cheers,

Roy

[tempesc]

Looking at your list i’ve taken an XT660z solo through Africa and could pick it up.....just.

I’ve also done a bunch of trails on it and it’s pretty good. I like it as a travel bike.

That said, if I wanted a trail riding bike I could travel a bit with (rather than a travel bike i could trail ride a bit) i’d definitely go lighter.

On the ‘use your AT’ suggestion I’d be in the ‘not for trail riding’ unless you are riding legend camp. I rode a trial recently where a really good rider was riding one. Here are a couple of clips - the really good rider getting the AT up the hill, and my (average rider) mate getting a proper dirt bike up it. Just look at the front end of the AT - sooner him than me!!




I’d definitely try the CRF250 Rally first to see if it is sufficient for your needs.




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[rbailey]

Crf 250 Rally for me (6'1" 13.0 stone). It carried me up the length of France last year, and all over the place in the UK last year, with around 11,500 miles in total.
This year it's off to Germany for a fortnight in June (dambuster tour and Black Forest) and over to the Dolomites via Switzerland and back through the Alps and France for three weeks in September. Plus the ABR weekend, numerous UK trips and a bit of local riding.

I love it to bits, but I guess you worked that out.

I used to have big motored bikes, but got bored with the weight, the limited opportunities to use the performance and the running costs among other things. I guess I just got bored with them in the end.

What I like most about the CRF, is when you see that track disappearing off into the forest or the mountains, you can take it, confident you can pick it up when you fall down.
I use two Moto Fizz panniers (years old but ace quality) and an Oxford Aquabag. I do travel light though.

Sounds great Slowboy.... I am edging toward the rally I think... Your trips this year sound ace too.

What do you find a reasonable cruising speed fully loaded, and what kind of distance (on road) do you make on a decent day?

Totally with you on the "if you drop it, need confidence about picking up" bit... That is by far my biggest concern, I have done a few days with others on ATs, and when one hits the deck, it aint a one man job getting it back up (on trail, with mud etc.)

Cheers,

Roy

[catcitrus]

Just watched all the entries on the above link--did it last year on the YAM wr250R--my son did it on his 1981 R80 G/S--a proper go anywhere bike--but much more expensive (now) than a CRF250 Rally! Also a couple of pics of me getting sort of lost in the valley of the Vezere last summer--and I could pick it up!

IMG_0028_600x450.JPG (102.59 KiB) Viewed 3002 times

[rbailey]

Looking at your list i’ve taken an XT660z solo through Africa and could pick it up.....just.

I’ve also done a bunch of trails on it and it’s pretty good. I like it as a travel bike.

That said, if I wanted a trail riding bike I could travel a bit with (rather than a travel bike i could trail ride a bit) i’d definitely go lighter.

On the ‘use your AT’ suggestion I’d be in the ‘not for trail riding’ unless you are riding legend camp. I rode a trial recently where a really good rider was riding one. Here are a couple of clips - the really good rider getting the AT up the hill, and my (average rider) mate getting a proper dirt bike up it. Just look at the front end of the AT - sooner him than me!!

I’d definitely try the CRF250 Rally first to see if it is sufficient for your needs.

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Great post, thanks tempesc,

a really interesting comparison seeing a CRF250 rally (which I have not ridden) doing the same hill as an AT (which I know well). Even taking the riders skill into account, it is interesting to see the relative ease of Sheparding the Rally up the hill, compared to the AT.

The two bikes you have listed (Rally, and Tenere) are toward the top of my mental (pre test ride) list. And I like your distinction between a travel bike for some trails, and a trail bike for some travel. The tenere does worry my a little off road, that being heavier I suspect I could end up in trouble more quickly on it, but for covering the miles, I suspect it would be great. The Rally the opposite... Would be happy off road, but do worry a little about covering miles on it... Although I know many do, they just take a more relaxed approach to covering the distance I guess.

When I started this thread, I was thinking of another bike to sit in the garage alongside my AT, but the more I think about it, whatever I pick now, will probably replace it.

Roy

[tempesc]

Glad it was helpful Roy. The dirt bike my mate was riding was actually a KTM250. Don’t have one of a CRF250 but here’s a CRF230 if it helps. The principle is the same though.


Here’s me and my pal in South Africa in November. He’s on an XT660R, I’m on the XT660z. I am a decidedly average dirt rider with a few years experience and that was fine on the XT. But i wouldn’t want to ride the XT up Simms Hill or Tipley in the wet whereas i may well be doing just that on a CRF250 at some point this year (im hopefully test riding one, along with a Husqvarna 701, this weekend)




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[P4ulie]

I've not ridden the rally but have the 2014 & also demo'd the AT, ignoring the obvious differences (both are built to a completely different price point, so suspension, goodies etc) the fundamental differences are weight, comfort, acceleration and top speed.

Personally top speed for me is irrelevant these days, opportunities of taking a bike to the limit are few and very far between if you want to keep your licence. Acceleration is acceptable on the 250, not great but certainly capable of keeping up with and overtaking 90% of what you will come across on a normal days riding. Dire compared to what you are used to on a litre bike though. Fuel economy is a fair whack better though.

Comfort you need to think about, the saddles are dirt bike planks so not the best, a sheepskin / gel saddle / air hawk are a necessity, I can manage about 100 miles before a good stretch, that works out about a smoke, cuppa, fuel stop anyway.

Where they really come into their own is weight and maintenance, you're looking at a 90kg difference to your AT, ignoring the picking up, that means less wear on tyres, brakes, chain / sprockets (lack of acceleration wins there) yada yada.

When I take a trip on my CRF compared to even my CCM, I pretty much halve the cost of fuel, yes it's more fun on the CCM but I certainly have to pay a hell of a lot more attention to nuts, bolts, oil usage etc. I literally just get on my CRF, ride it, put in fuel, change the oil every 2000 odd miles & swap tyres when they're fecked. I occasionally lube, adjust & replace the chain / sprockets. That's been my maintenance regime for 4 years & 45000 miles. I have gone through quite a few headlight bulbs though, thankfully that's 4 bolts & about 4 minutes work. A bulb change on my BMW F650 was about 2 hours of hell

So you know Giant Loop and most of the other similar type bags mount over the rear saddle and are attached via rear loops (or preferably a luggage rack) and your pillion foot pegs. You don't need side pannier rails etc so can save a fair whack of cash and weight.