Honda 450L

[Brenhden]

However, the heavier flywheel has upped the bottom end torque a lot.

Don't want to be pedantic, but flywheel weight can not increase torque of an engine, a flywheel is no more than an energy storage device, it can smooth out power pulses and in some cases make an engine less likely to stall and even make an engine stall easier in other cases

I know this isn't strictly speaking on topic but could you explain how some engines have more low rev torque than others please?

[SteveW]

I'm a long way from being a competant mechanic.
But 600 miles between oil changes is bull-shit for a travel bike, unless you're racing it you can multiply that by a factor of 5.
Like any single cylinder bike with a small oil capacity.....just keep an eye on oil levels and top up as required, making sure you use the recommended oil type.
No one mentions the KLX450r.....still available new, you can blag a discount and have it on the road with a safari tank, bark buster, aluminium bash plate a giant loop and tank bag....under 7K.
It'll easily keep with a 450exc over any terrain and top 100mph.
Tried and tested Japanese tech, bullet-proof, it's even got a back-up kick start.
This was mine....I'm in negotiations to buy it back from the bloke I sold it to 18 months ago.

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[daveuprite]

I've always thought that the KLX looks good, in that purposeful Kawasaki way. I'm sure it's a good all rounder. But I'd certainly take issue with it 'keeping with a 450EXC over any terrain'. That's just not the case. Obviously only a back to back test with the same rider and conditions could prove it, but the specs alone show how much more of a dedicated enduro bike the KTM is compared to the Kwak. You never see KLXs entered into tough enduro events.

On the other hand, the KLX can do things that the KTM can't and would surely be a better long distance trail-to-trail compromise bike.

[AlanHolt]

I've never understood why so many people shy away from Kawasaki bikes. I've had more issues with Honda bikes than with Kawasaki, but for decades the media have portrayed Honda to be the most reliable.

[minkyhead]

well thats not my point ..its well documented that for trail riding oil changes can be increased ...on the flip side i average 24mph on me ccm thats 200 hours every five thousand miles ...and i dont buy into ccms service intervals at all and 50 hours is where i sit and im well over a 1000 hours up now on them and the engine is solid as a rock ..so if anything if its hour based the honda will have even shorter intervals
im not warranty paranoid having a brand new rally and then chucking a another engine in it .......but will i really have to have it stamped every 2nd week to keep it ? tbo ccm were way way too optomistik at 5000 imho for a litre of oil to last 208 hours ...?? point being that they had a two year unlimited warranty on that basis and mine has never had a factory service as its had three before its due ?
the cumupence of this is that i prefer to take the 300s for long distance as there is zero concerns about sevicing /valves or pretty much anything tbo .....the other thing that is way in their favour is i can put proper full braaap tyres on them and they last four times longer than the big banger
i were hoping the 450l would be cast in the milder end of tune and reap the benifits of the smaller bikes huge travel potential while still sporting great suspension and tyre wear

it does look a bridge too far for adv bike purposes hopfully im wrong .. but il still try one and see how the mop flops after its been out a while

[catcitrus]

Agree with Minky on his philosophy--and there is a nice 450 kawa in my local KTM dealers at the moment--tempted--but for me being vertically challenged its too tall as stock. I have the little Kawa 250 super sherpa--nicely spaced 6 speed and very light and low. I'm going to do the DR650 fuel tank conversion at some point just to try it on a long trip--and a decent rack and pannier frames are available from the Ukraine. The bike is popular in the East, and with Oz stockmen--says it all really. However, I have the WR250R set up for long distance and was with Minky down at Sarge's recently. Its now got 21k on the clock, did the 700 mile return trip in two days with an overnight camp, cruised at 70 mph, did over 70 mpg and used no oil and required no adjustments--and it has a 26k valve check interval!! I do drop the oil regularly, but thats to have a look at the magnet for peace of mind. I guess I'm saying that for most of us the Honda 450 is too focused and we are happy with other choices like the 250 Rally--as I said much earlier I don't see it fitting into the adventure mould---more of a KTM competitor--which is for people travelling too fast on the trails to see anything(standing by for comments!!!).

[JMoandpiglet]

I have the little Kawa 250 super sherpa--nicely spaced 6 speed and very light and low. I'm going to do the DR650 fuel tank conversion at some point just to try it on a long trip--and a decent rack and pannier frames are available from the Ukraine...

Apologies for the off-topic comment, but I hope it helps - you can also fit the larger Clark Tank for an XT225 on the Sherpa, and it mates-up really well with the seat and side panels too - I love the Super Sherpa, they are great smaller travel/trail bikes!




As far as the CRF450L goes - I'm sure it is going to be just as good as any other street-legal enduro bike is for travel and trail riding - ie. much better as a platform for day rides rather than extended multi-day trips, without a lot of additional prep and the inevitable [servicing] compromise using a bike with a race-derived engine for more mundane riding conditions.

I'm really tempted by one of these - but fundamentally to own and use in California, where it is impossible to street-register a WR450F or regular CRF450X - here in the UK, and mainland Europe, it's unlikely to be as popular a choice as what is already available. Personally, I'd not be looking at any competition derived machine as a genuine long-distance travel bike.

Just my 2 cents, in the pot for my new Honda ;o)

Jx

[Mike54]

I've always thought that the KLX looks good, in that purposeful Kawasaki way. I'm sure it's a good all rounder. But I'd certainly take issue with it 'keeping with a 450EXC over any terrain'. That's just not the case. Obviously only a back to back test with the same rider and conditions could prove it, but the specs alone show how much more of a dedicated enduro bike the KTM is compared to the Kwak. You never see KLXs entered into tough enduro events.

On the other hand, the KLX can do things that the KTM can't and would surely be a better long distance trail-to-trail compromise bike.

These days you very rarely see 450 four strokes in enduro events anyway, and certainly never in extreme enduros, they're just not for that. On paper the chassis of the kwak is not up there with the KTM but who of us mortals can tell the difference. The engine performance in power terms is pretty much equal in the real world, and I know that having raced against steve on his (me on a KTM 450 exc, 2014) and on the flat I couldn't gain on him

[SteveW]

You don't know what you missed until it's gone. One day Kawasaki will stop making the KLX450r.
I was probably getting a bit carried away when comparing it's suspension to a KTM.....but the Kawasaki suspenders are far from budget.
How much nicer (and easier) is it to ride a torquey trail bike?
Stick the 450r in 3rd on a trail and it's like riding an automatic......loads of usable pulling power.
I've seen good riders really getting a shift on riding CRF250L's......but I'd miss that option of a bit of drama that you can extract from 110kg and about 50bhp on a trail.
Sorry, but these 20bhp trail bikes bore me to death!
If I have to keep an eye on the oil level and have the valves checked every now and again, then it's worth it.
I ran both a 450exc and a Kawasaki 450r at the same time.
The Kawasaki felt a wee bit more stable, the KTM turned quicker and overall I preferred the KTM (Just)....but you've got to love that Green Underdog.

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The winner is the Orange one....but it's closer than you think.

[daveuprite]

I've always thought that the KLX looks good, in that purposeful Kawasaki way. I'm sure it's a good all rounder. But I'd certainly take issue with it 'keeping with a 450EXC over any terrain'. That's just not the case. Obviously only a back to back test with the same rider and conditions could prove it, but the specs alone show how much more of a dedicated enduro bike the KTM is compared to the Kwak. You never see KLXs entered into tough enduro events.

On the other hand, the KLX can do things that the KTM can't and would surely be a better long distance trail-to-trail compromise bike.

These days you very rarely see 450 four strokes in enduro events anyway, and certainly never in extreme enduros, they're just not for that. On paper the chassis of the kwak is not up there with the KTM but who of us mortals can tell the difference. The engine performance in power terms is pretty much equal in the real world, and I know that having raced against steve on his (me on a KTM 450 exc, 2014) and on the flat I couldn't gain on him

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing the Kawasaki at all. I'd happily ride one myself. I've always been a Kawasaki fan, ridden and raced many of them, and I like how the KLX looks. I'm sure it's a great bike. Just not up to KTM 450EXC levels 'on any terrain'. On most of the tracks you find while green-laning in the UK, I don't doubt at all.

I used to say a similar thing of my DRZ400. I could 'keep with' the rest of the gang on most of our French trails. But I was often more tired as a result, needed help to get across some obstacles, and ultimately would have been slower over a set distance if we had actually been competing - which we weren't. Nothing to do with top speed, which was fine. More to do with covering ground up steep hills, over logs, across streams and rocks etc etc. The difference in bikes was made starkly clear for me when I eventually moved up to a Beta 450RR and I quickly learnt what a well-suspended, lighter, better balanced and more modern bike felt like. I'm sure the KLX, with its ally frame etc would be closer.

However the DRZ and the KLX are enormously better at covering longer-distances on/off road without such frequent servicing. As some french restaurant menus might say, it's Horses for Courses

It doesn't really matter. We ride what we ride and I'm sure I'd enjoy the greeny a lot.