Why so expensive?

[captinktm]

we have to remember that our government has been printing money like mad now for years
so its value is very much lower than say 10 years ago
its just that we don't notice it so much as the rest of the world is getting poorer too
but when certain items are produced ,, using new money and new technology
then the real costs begin to show?

What? The world getting poorer? No way. There are more super rich now than there ever were. While traveling through some so called poor countries it as become obvious to me that there are plenty of poor governments but countries are getting richer. That maybe be just credit and sooner or later that will bite um in the ass. But take Turkey, when I first moved there the roads were mostly dirt and the cars Tofas Fiats and Renault 16's now everyone has a brand new Fiat. Yes there are poor people but they will always be poor. Here in Bulgaria the same applies, the government is on it's ass, the roads are so bad that unless the EU steeps in they will never be repaired, but riding around the place it is dripping with money. I see more top of the range cars here than in the uk. People here have more houses (that's 100% ownership not mortgaged) than anywhere else in Europe. Theirs plenty of money it's just the tax man can't get it.
I still think 20k is too much for a motorcycle that will depreciate so fast that maybe even I will get to buy one before I die.

[captinktm]

Totally agree the only new bike I ever bought was the 10r and that was 8.6k on finance brand new. Looking at the price of second hand markets bikes do seem to be appreciating or staying constant which is crazy. I keep thinking my bike is worth pennies then see a bike 5 yrs older with 25k more miles for 4.5k pfffff the markets are crazey!

Which secondhand market are you talking about, I am guess your looking at new ish bikes, because when I trawl for stuff like R1's and ZZR 1100's they are so cheap it's rude not to buy them?
But you are right about certain models like my old 950 they are now going up If I wait twenty years may the new R1 will have depreciated enough to do a straight swop!!

[captinktm]

for fast road riding abs and traction control are a cushion i like ,
off road especially rear wheel not so

dave.

Dave, how often does the ABS and TC come on then while you are riding? Oh and I am a KTM rider, I can't be seen riding with a cushion!!

[captinktm]

Technology for technology's sake is totally pointless.
As an old git, i still want better handling, suspension, performance and reliability than my 51 year old Triumph, which I would only use for short fun trips anyway.
I am certainly no luddite.

Sports bikes are and always have been too much for UK roads and speed limits.
If you want to ride like Ago/Rea, do track days.
I do admit to wondering how brainless high speed is over here these days. Broken roads, mud, farm vehicles, moronic drivers and phone users or mums feeding children mean going too fast is too risky.
Back in my day (sorry) roads were better and massively less busy so speed was less of an issue.

I have had my share of quick (not stupid quick) cars and bikes and loved them but probably, like most people, only used 60% of their ability anyway. The only time I hit the rev limiter is on a missed gear.

Well said boss, I come back to the uk from time to time and wonder what the point is of having a fast bike or car for that matter. When I came out of the army and bought a house in Menheniot about 17 miles from Plymouth I could get in there on the Blade or R1 in less than 17 minuets now the same journey takes 40 minuets if your prepared to cross a double white, other wise join the queue. I think the roads and the traffic are two of the reasons adv type bikes took off. It was certainly the reason I bought one, to slow down.

[Uncle Denz]

I will take all advances in the biking world gladly but would like a bit more lightness too boot if possible. Not sure how they manage to make some bikes so lardy!

I don’t view this as an argument against progress. It’s more big companies taking the mick, in all areas not just bikes. My generation (i’m 33) has left universtiy straight into the credit crunch and wage growth has been non existent. I know that the job I went into straight after leaving uni is paying virtually the same as 10 years ago. In that time cars and bikes have increased dramatically in price, certainly significantly more than inflation. I know that the complex systems take developing. But I think the main driver has been PCP type deals. The more people are told they can afford the more they will say yes and the quicker the manufacturers and dealers will increase price, telling the returning punter that they “only” need a couple grand more deposit and another £20 a month. Totally out of kilt with wages, nothing to do with them in fact.

[DavidS]

Sad old git time again....

ABS - I hate it on my 690 and have to switch it off when on the dirt. Front brake isn'tvstrong enough to lock up anyway on the road (maybe a pad change needed as I didn't fit them).

Anyway, here goes. It's how people spend their money IMHO
We were married in 1977, our house was in the low end of the market, absolutely every bit of furniture except the bed was second had and my dear departed dad and I built a tiny kitchen,
We only had a bike then but bought an ancient Ford Escort after a couple of years.
Our honeymoon was camping in Germany on the Bonneville and holidays were B&Bs
Days out were speedway on Sunday, occasional grass track on Saturdays and one night a week at the pub with mates.

While heartily agreeing that the houe price situation is appalling, too many of the yoof of today still want to start straight away with a smart house in the right location, new(ish) car, expensive furniture, £20k weddings where they expect their mates to cough up a fortune to cross the world to get there AND buy a pressie. Oh, and a new phone every few weeks. My wife and I once spent three hours in a phone box (remember them?) in a downpour waiting for the RAC to pick up our sick bike - times have changed

We've built up to what we've got but is has taken all those years and a prudent accountant wife but we can probably retire and enjoy life more now than we did when working. But, being self enployed for 30 years, my income related to living costs varied very little and I was one of the lucky ones.

Manufacturers will always charge what they think they can get away with but look at the permanent sales in every market week in week out now. Back then, January sales were it.

Moan over, I'm still happy and always have been but I do like a gripe

[SteveW]

we have to remember that our government has been printing money like mad now for years
so its value is very much lower than say 10 years ago
its just that we don't notice it so much as the rest of the world is getting poorer too
but when certain items are produced ,, using new money and new technology
then the real costs begin to show?

What? The world getting poorer? No way. There are more super rich now than there ever were. While traveling through some so called poor countries it as become obvious to me that there are plenty of poor governments but countries are getting richer. That maybe be just credit and sooner or later that will bite um in the ass. But take Turkey, when I first moved there the roads were mostly dirt and the cars Tofas Fiats and Renault 16's now everyone has a brand new Fiat. Yes there are poor people but they will always be poor. Here in Bulgaria the same applies, the government is on it's ass, the roads are so bad that unless the EU steeps in they will never be repaired, but riding around the place it is dripping with money. I see more top of the range cars here than in the uk. People here have more houses (that's 100% ownership not mortgaged) than anywhere else in Europe. Theirs plenty of money it's just the tax man can't get it.
I still think 20k is too much for a motorcycle that will depreciate so fast that maybe even I will get to buy one before I die.

Drifting off topic......
It's the middle class that drive any economy.
Bulgaria is a poor country. Yes there are the rich and the very rich, but doctors, teachers, policemen, managers, engineers and other professionals are generally poorly paid.
There is a big discrepancy between the have's and have-not's.
Most of the 50'somethings want the return of communism.
Moving slightly back towards topic.....
I always think there's a business to be had exporting unloved old 600cc sports bikes from the UK to Bulgaria, then on the return trip bringing old Soviet tractors, trucks, 4x4's, cars and bikes back to the UK.

[captinktm]

Yes Steve you are spot on there that its the middle class that drive a counties economy because they can be taxed, but I think that problem here in Bulgaria and other ex comy counties, is the fact that the government can't get them to pay tax. Why because they don't know what they earn, they own their houses so no mortgage, they buy their cars from Germany S/H so no credit there. I know the so called professionals get paid less but they also do a shite job. Mechanic's here are useless, it took us 5 years to find a dentist who inflicted less pain than you were in already. Have you seen the plumbing? I have now adopted the attitude that I do everything my self because of course I can do a shit job and it costed me nothing. What about all the Germany sponsored companies here that are manufacturing and then shipping back into the EU where the same thing cost 3 times as much to make. The trouble is the profits from this never go anywhere near the Bulgarian government. Allowing the mass import of all (apart form the uk) the EU old cars is foolish. They should be manufacturing their own or at the vary least making people buy new on credit. That way they can't hide what they earn. and would have to pay tax on that.
The reason the over 50's want the good old days back is because they are lazy unskilled and don't want to think for them selves.

Your right about the bikes, they ride all the old stuff here and they don't last long due to the mechanics. Here's a thing I heard the other day while out riding with to Bulgarians. The guy was riding a new 800 Bmw something or other and starts complaining about the lack of good mechanics there were to service it for him. So I said what do you pay per hour here for a service or repair? 30 lev and hour in Sofia. Ah there's your problem I says. In the uk that would cost you £100 plus an hour. He was happy to pay 8k for the bike but would even think of paying £100 an hour to maintain it.
The only trouble I see with your plan is there are Bulgies are doing this every day. All the dirt bikes here come from the EU and mostly the uk.