Lights on?

[minkyhead]

no never had to bump it ...the reason i know you need to touch the starter .........its in the manual

i left me camera charger plugged in once .. a couple of weeks later ...nothing volt meter showed 00.01 ..ooops .ive heard that they can switch themselves into a self protect sleepmode and at0.001 i suspect it may have done that ?

i put the charger on it . gave it 5 mins and just checked the volt meter to see if it was moving .....it showed 12.8 after five mins ..wtf
it then started fist prod
these lithium batterys are witchcraft reading on the webisite it actually says the battery will reach 90 percent charge in 6 minuits and indeed it does ...they also need waking up i leave the ignition on for about a minute before starting from cold while i put me glove on earplugs in ect ..they actually get stronger with some draw it always starts fist prod no throttle ..no problem

thesee batterys are becoming more and more standard equipment on dirtbikes they are a bit weird .but i dont find any problem with the battery itself the fundemental problem with the ccm is managing the crappy output from the stator ....

DSC_0752 by minkyhead56, on Flickr

[garyboy]

mm .. pressing the starter button is to keep the ecu live!!
must be that once it knows it has to fire up the ignition then it will keep doing that? without the starter. Perhaps it switches on another (ignition) circuit? once fired?

.. and doing 3 things to bump start may not be so bad, as you can go down a hill with the clutch in, then let it out, then, whilst the cylinder is struggling, press the starter button, and if need be, twist the throttle a little bit .. so the actions are shared into separate logical items. ?


[[ps .. My TTR600 was virtually impossible to start on a bump .. unless you has a very long downhill run and got into a high gear, as it would slip/skid due to the high compression.]]

[bowber]

To bump start a single or twin you need to pull them back on compression first, this gives a revolution to get momentum into the flywheel. We had to start our grasstrack bikes running 13:1 comp ratio by bump starting and as a test I did my 950 adv. Like most things it's technique and practice.
Re lights, changing as many bulbs to LED, tail, side etc should free up a few watts. Also my 1050 adv turns off the lights when it's not running.

Steve

[The Sarge]

You can tell from this comment that I know nothing about electrics but surely charging a battery pack off the bike's system is more of a draw than a couple of itty bitty bulbs.

Happy to be corrected but please be gentle.

I don't think we are talking about charging the booster pack off the bike's own system.
On a big trip often I take one of those compact magic booster things with me, pre-charged before I leave home.
You'll get a good few jump starts off one before you need to think about charging it up again.
......I left my CCM in the garage with an accessory plugged in for a couple of weeks. I came to start it....flat battery.
Rather than jumpstarting it I pushed the bike a couple of hundred yards to my friendly neighbourhood hill.
Half a mile later stuck at the bottom of the hill the bugger hadn't fired. Trudge back home and recover in my van.
Further back in this thread I read minkyhead's tip about pressing the starter as you bump a CCM if you actually what it to start! cheers Dude!

Steve, as Minky says if you don't press the starter button she can't fire another quirky CCM thing, but it proves that he has had the same problem as the rest of us ! The other biggie is with that battery, you cannot use a conventional charger for it, it has to be the 'twice as expensive and particular to' version.........now where is my kickstarter !!

Sarge

High Sarge--so are you saying that even with the ignition on the thing won't actually spark/inject with a bump unless the starter is depressed?--is there some weird wiring that won't fire the fuel pump or ignition below a certain RPM (tickover) UNLESS the starter circuit is activated. Now doing a bump start on your own and trying to drop the clutch and press the starter at the same time sounds like a recipe for a fall!--just curious--but something I would try and reconfigure if I owned one! I know Lithium batteries take more voltage to charge than gel--and some chargers go into de-sulphate mode because they think the battery is gummed up--but my smart charger does just cope with Li batteries in its Gel setting--just enough voltage output, but not a specific Li charger.--and the Li starter packs can be charged off a 12v accessory socket--you just need a good charger output of about 14V--I think!

As it says Chris the ECU is energised on the starter circuit instead of having a permanent supply from the ignition, which is pretty bonkers really !! ECU's need a minimum of 12.7 V normally, some bikes it's higher than that 13.6v So with the battery under maximum load its little wonder why some of us have had the problems with starting, the thing may spin but if the ECU is not getting enough juice your pretty fooked The battery has to be in perfect condition, the Lithium batteries are pretty quirky, incredibly light though

[catcitrus]

Who would have thunk it!--having to press the starter to activate the ECU!--but as you say its in the manual!--I'd love to know WHY its been configured in this way--and to be honest its pretty unusual to give written guidance on bump starting anyway!!
So you are out on the trail, and on your own, and you have to run alongside with the clutch in and pressing the starter button at the same time--and then leap on and drop the clutch!--looking forward to a man from CCM giving a demonstration!--where's me starter pack!!

[SteveW]

You can tell from this comment that I know nothing about electrics but surely charging a battery pack off the bike's system is more of a draw than a couple of itty bitty bulbs.

Happy to be corrected but please be gentle.

I don't think we are talking about charging the booster pack off the bike's own system.
On a big trip often I take one of those compact magic booster things with me, pre-charged before I leave home.
You'll get a good few jump starts off one before you need to think about charging it up again.
......I left my CCM in the garage with an accessory plugged in for a couple of weeks. I came to start it....flat battery.
Rather than jumpstarting it I pushed the bike a couple of hundred yards to my friendly neighbourhood hill.
Half a mile later stuck at the bottom of the hill the bugger hadn't fired. Trudge back home and recover in my van.
Further back in this thread I read minkyhead's tip about pressing the starter as you bump a CCM if you actually what it to start! cheers Dude!

Should have kept the KTM boss

I've still got the KTM Chris.
The CCM is a fantastic light weight all roads travel bike.
I love it.

[minkyhead]

Who would have thunk it!--having to press the starter to activate the ECU!--but as you say its in the manual!--I'd love to know WHY its been configured in this way--and to be honest its pretty unusual to give written guidance on bump starting anyway!!
So you are out on the trail, and on your own, and you have to run alongside with the clutch in and pressing the starter button at the same time--and then leap on and drop the clutch!--looking forward to a man from CCM giving a demonstration!--where's me starter pack!!

i dont believe this is the case at all ..the bike primes on ignition the same as any other FI bike and like near all new bikes now the lighting system stays off until after the coils demand currant and with the ignition wired in loop i belive that is why you need to touch the starter as the ecu will be fooled into waiting for a signal to send power to the coils

there is no need at all to keep the clutch in it has no switch ..tbo the procedure is the same as any bump ..push in neutral boot it in to gear you just need to touch the starter when you dump the clutch ..i aint going to run up and down the road like a lunatic but ill bump her on a hill just to see what happens .. to me the instruction in the manual is simple and easy to understand and carry out ??
the reality of bumping a high compression lightweight 450 on loose ground is somwhat different and at times pretty much impossible depending where you are irrispective of button or no button ..like it or not thats what you need to do so it would be a bit usless hooking up for a twenty meter tow in desperation to start the thing without knowing waht to do ..thus the insetion into the workshop manual



neatly taking the thread back to lighting /draw and back up power packs and the undeniable desirability of a kicker

[captinktm]

Just to wind back time a bit more, I have a 525 with the decompressor and even when I rode the post 04 models I would fit one. Two reason's really , the first obvious for bumping, and the second re starting when drowned. It does n't always work on a drowned bike but I have managed to re start twice now by just pulling in a cranking her over.
I guess they will never fit them again.

[qcnr]

Headlights have to be on permanently here in Norway. Bikes and cars have been sold for donkeys years
with the headlights coming on with the ignition. Most modern cars at least you can't switch them off as
it is all controlled by the ECU. Similar on modern bikes. Mine is an import so I have to remember to
switch them on.

[garyboy]

Headlights have to be on permanently here in Norway. Bikes and cars have been sold for donkeys years
with the headlights coming on with the ignition . Mine is an import so I have to remember to
switch them on.

in the uk .. I remember the first I saw this, many years ago ... they were Volvo's from Scandinavia