Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

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Tramp
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by Tramp » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:39 pm

what something weights on paper is imaterial imo....its how it rides and carrys its weight

also how many have bothered to check the scales at mot time :woohoo: ...my old ta650 was on paper 195kg well with accessories it weighted 220kg...just normal things..

engine bars,pannier rack,sump guard.............a 20kg of wiltshire mud :woohoo:

I will test ride one when it comes out but its way above my paypacket ....and a ktm950 will do everything better :P ..........did I really say that :whistle:

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captinktm
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by captinktm » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:53 pm

Zookman wrote:Well i love the looks of it..... although its not for me personally, as it doesn't quite have enough power for me and i wouldn't want a 21" front either. But i dont go off road so the bike isn't really aimed at me anyway.

As for the supposed 30 kilo weight difference between this new AT and the KTM 950 ADV..... well how much do you think the WET weight is of the 950 ?
The weight of my 10 year old 950 is 183.5 kgs dry ( akro's fitted) plus 16 kgs for 22 litres of fuel. 205.5 kgs The Honda's is 228 kgs with 19 litres of fuel. That as close to 30 kg as I can manipulate the figures ;)

Mike54
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by Mike54 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:38 pm

Richard Simpson wrote:And they should be able to make a parallel twin lighter than a V?

Much as I find aspects of 950 ownership frustrating...what replaces it?


Pos a BM 800?

I looked at a Yam Tenere...but its a 660 single that's about as heavy as my 950 twin and with lightweight budget suspension...how did Yamaha manage that?
Bit like going from Monica Belluci to Rachel Riley to lorraine kelly

ZX Raziel
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by ZX Raziel » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:38 pm

Mike54 wrote:Nicked BigKuri's post from the KTM forum but it sums it up perfectly for me anyway

So, if I am understanding this correctly with the right figures:

Honda AT vs 1190 R

CBF AT 1190 R Notes
Dry Weight 222 kg 217 kg Both fully loaded specs, ABS, TC for KTM and DCT for Honda
Power 93 150 But at least the Honda is light!... Oh, no, wait...
Torque 72 lbft 92 lbft Hmm, not sure I believe the AT torque? Must mean a massive flysheel?
Fuel 19 l 23 l Ok, so 19 l in the Honda most likely is significantly more range
Seat height 870mm 890 mm
Clearance 250 mm 250 mm
Wheel base 1575 mm 1580 mm


So essentially you have the same dimensions of the bike - so the AT is big, just like the 1190R. With less power, better range (I'm guessing), some clever gearbox offset by the KTMs clever traction and ABS.

If Honda had made this thing below 180kg (160kg ideally) and the same 93bhp, I'd already be queuing in a tent outside Honda Chiswick to order it. But they have not done that, so BOOOO to Honda.
I would not compare manual to automatic not a good idea .
The AT its lighter than the 1190 , less powerful , ktm looks better ( in MO ) .
People are missing the point , light weight its always good , but it matters more in the racing less where this bike will be used , ( in the real world ) , Its a honda for god's sake it was never going to be ultra light , and we all now where have the extra kg's gone , stronger frame and reliable engine .
Compare The 950 to a 990 then the 1190 , can you see the pattern ?
As with everything the bikes are getting more complex , ( FI , ABS, TC , Electronic suspensions ,... ) and the emision laws are tougher , so anyone that compares 12 years old bike to a new one should realize this , its not fair to compare .
This bike its only few kg heavyer than the 990 KTM , but i know wich one will work longer . 19 liters of fuel its a let down , the horsepower means nothing to me , 100Nm of torque matters more and it is enough for the type of riding i am doing .
The orange bikes are the performance kings right now if that is what you want get one and enjoy it , i want the AT for a good reason and i know it will sell well.

ZX Raziel
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by ZX Raziel » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:47 pm

If KTM made V twin and a parallel twin of the same capacity , the parallel twin will be lighter than the V twin , both versions from honda would weigh more in this price range . ;)

cozmo1589
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by cozmo1589 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:52 pm

Well what a mix bag of positive and negative comments thus far but then we can't all covert the same machine otherwise it would be a boring old world we lived in.

So i have owned 4 x new Hondas over the last 5 or 6 years or so and in my humble honest opinion regarding actual build quality and reliability, Honda simply cannot be beaten on either front. I also own a BMW which i think is absolutely bloody fantastic but its not built any better than the big H.

Re the size of the tank and overall range, well i for one am perfectly happy to refuel circa 200 miles or thereabouts. I actually like to get off the bike and stretch my legs and have a brew. I once had a Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX with a 32ltr tank and that thing ridden carefully would cover nigh on 375 miles, way way to long to be stuck in the saddle and anyone who says different must have a cast iron butt.

When everyone questions its overall BHP, when was circa 95bhp for something that weighs less than 250kgs never enough in real world riding situations?? Suzuki seem to think 100bhp is fine for their new V Strom 1000 and that selling well enough around the world. I have had plenty of bikes around 100BHP and all cruised perfectly well at legal speeds, all would out accelerate the vast majority of cars and all would easily exceed 100 mph which is plenty quick enough so unless you want to exceed 140 - 150 mph whats the real point? I currently have a 130BHP Honda Crosstourer and hardly do i ever really benefit from all that power on tap. I actually find it hilarious that KTM and Ducati for instance build adventurer touring bikes that have around 160BHP, totally ridiculous and on dual purpose tyres. Want more torque and power, get a sports bike i say. i for one am looking forward to a more agile and lighter bike to use day to day.

Looks are totally subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I for one like its appearance and hope it rides as good as it looks. Once its available for demos later this year, i plan to chop in my Crosstourer and get myself one providing it fits me okay and is comfortable enough.
2015-07-23_20-07-09.jpg
2015-07-23_20-07-09.jpg (28.47 KiB) Viewed 102 times
:woohoo:
2014 Honda VFR1200X Crosstourer DCT Highlander

Zookman
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by Zookman » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:53 pm

captinktm wrote:
Zookman wrote:Well i love the looks of it..... although its not for me personally, as it doesn't quite have enough power for me and i wouldn't want a 21" front either. But i dont go off road so the bike isn't really aimed at me anyway.

As for the supposed 30 kilo weight difference between this new AT and the KTM 950 ADV..... well how much do you think the WET weight is of the 950 ?
The weight of my 10 year old 950 is 183.5 kgs dry ( akro's fitted) plus 16 kgs for 22 litres of fuel. 205.5 kgs The Honda's is 228 kgs with 19 litres of fuel. That as close to 30 kg as I can manipulate the figures ;)
You can juggle the figures all you like.... and you're not comparing like for like when you've modded your bike.
A standard 950 has a true wet weight of around 225 kilos....not far short of this new AT.

captinktm
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by captinktm » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:02 pm

Zookman wrote:
captinktm wrote:
Zookman wrote:Well i love the looks of it..... although its not for me personally, as it doesn't quite have enough power for me and i wouldn't want a 21" front either. But i dont go off road so the bike isn't really aimed at me anyway.

As for the supposed 30 kilo weight difference between this new AT and the KTM 950 ADV..... well how much do you think the WET weight is of the 950 ?
The weight of my 10 year old 950 is 183.5 kgs dry ( akro's fitted) plus 16 kgs for 22 litres of fuel. 205.5 kgs The Honda's is 228 kgs with 19 litres of fuel. That as close to 30 kg as I can manipulate the figures ;)

How the hell do you make that out? Check the figures below, 22 litres of fuel and 3 litres of oil is ......uh.......207?

(0.39 inch)
Dimensions L: 2,300 mm (91 in)[2]
H: 1,500 mm (59 in)
Seat height 880 mm (35 in)
Weight 189 kg (417 lb) (dry)
Fuel capacity 22 L (4.8 imp gal; 5.8 US gal)
Oil capacity 3 L (0.66 imp gal; 0.79 US gal)
Fuel consumption 5.5 to 10 L/100km (43 to 24 MPG)
You can juggle the figures all you like.... and you're not comparing like for like when you've modded your bike.
A standard 950 has a true wet weight of around 225 kilos....not far short of this new AT.

Zookman
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by Zookman » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:09 pm

Even on ADVrider.... KTM 950 owners quote there bikes as 495 or 500 pounds wet. You do the conversion.
KTM dry weights as they used to list em, were always BS in the real world.... you list 189 dry, but loads of places list 198 dry. Then there's fuel, water,oil and a battery to add.

Plus, i've road a 950 and its easily 225 kilos with a full tank.

AndyB
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Re: Africa Twin, high res image & full spcs link from visor down...

Post by AndyB » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:09 pm

The thing about horsepower is that it's wasted if the bike and/or tyres can't cope with it. KTM claim 150bhp for the 1190 though my seat of the pants feeling is that it's more like 135bhp and it copes very well, the tyres never feel as if they're anywhere near being overwhelmed and I think that's more down to the suspension than the Conti Trail Attack tyres.

I can't wait to see how good the suspension is on the new AT and I'll be very surprised if it's in the same league as the Multistrada or 1290 KTM let alone the 1190 that doesn't have semi active suspension. Problems start to arise when you mess with the tyres and move away from original spec but that's usually because the owner doesn't make any changes to take into account the different profile and the bike doesn't like it.

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