CCM 450 v's AJP PR7 ?

[-Ralph-]

If you buy a bike that has premium suspension on it from new then you're not paying for the lower spec parts as well so the additional cost on the price of the bike is significantly reduced

The cost and sales margin on a new bike is also much less than the cost and sales margin on aftermarket parts. The manufacturer buys them in bulk and sells them at a lower margin as a part of the bike, much cheaper than you could buy them from a distributor and add them yourself.

[mark1150]

Does anyone know what bike Nick Sanders first rode around the world.... A pushbike!
So following your train of thought CCM could dump the controversial engine and fit pedals.

??? :unsure:

I don't think that's what he said.
Anyway the CCM 450 is a proven old motor, if they'd said they were intending to use KTM's old RFS 450 and make it do 3K between oil changes then I'd be laughing, however the BMW 450 is in the same area as the DRZ400 etc and is more than capable of high mileages with proper maintenance. It's also about to go on sale in November.

The AJP is a very nice looking bike and I think it will be in a similar market as the CCM when it comes out, however I think they'll be better doing a cooking model and a top spec model like they currently seem to do with their other bikes.
Again it's using a proven motor and they already produce bikes so they have a dealer network in place.

The real crux of the matter will be if there is truly a big enough market for AJP and CCM to make money from these bikes? Personally I think the market will be driven by the perceived value and my money would be on the AJP if it comes out soon enough.

Steve

So sorry I've just re read it and yes.. I'm right, otherwise why bring the 225cc bike into it?

Why bring the 225 into it? If people are putting down the CCM against this new 660 because of the size & strength comparisons and in doing so placing the CCM in a less favorable light, because, then so, making out its CCM RTW potential, now, less favorable because of its size. There, it seems, that some may still think that "size does matter". It does not. You can still do RTW on just about any size, albeit a 660, a 450...or a 225

So is this long winded guff a roundabout way of acknowledging that I'm right again?
As I said Mr Sanders used a bicycle, so whats your point?
Regarding size matters, perhaps in your bedroom it becomes a major issue; however in the real world people have expressed concerns about your pin up's size @450cc's preferring and rightly so IMHO a displacement of 660, and at a reasonable cost, which is after all the subject title of this thread.

So you dream on with 225's or even of that dude who's done it on a shopping cart (sorry c90) but while thinking of harder ways to do it here's one.... WALK.

[FMFox]

I must have missed that advert. Where CCM stated that the bike was for everyone. Considering they can only produce 20 a month I doubt they would ever have claimed that.

It was the strap line on the front page of the GP450 section on the CCM website. I can't remember exactly what it said as they've changed it now, but it was along the lines of "Best adventure bike on the market".

The line was "every adventure starts with a single step" well guess you read that put 2+2 together and made 5.

[mark1150]

I must have missed that advert. Where CCM stated that the bike was for everyone. Considering they can only produce 20 a month I doubt they would ever have claimed that.

It was the strap line on the front page of the GP450 section on the CCM website. I can't remember exactly what it said as they've changed it now, but it was along the lines of "Best adventure bike on the market".

The line was "every adventure starts with a single step" well guess you read that put 2+2 together and made 5.

A very apt strap line that turned out to be..... With the no show of the messiah perhaps they were always expecting their customers to walk!

[dragonwheels]

AJP's Marketing Manager (in Portugal)worked for KTM as the Importer for that country for 3 years. Unofficially, but this IS from the horses mouth so to speak...They (KTM) will never produced a 690 adventure 'cos they've already done the numbers and realised that despite what everyone SAYS they still BUY the big buggers.

BUT AJP can be much more flexible with the numbers as a much smaller manufacturer. We CAN make the numbers work with only only hundreds, rather than thousands of units per year.

Hope that clears up one point...loving the views on here, I really hope that if it lives up to your expectations, some of you actually DO go out and put your money where your opinion is...

Keep it coming, I'm relaying it all to Portugal..

[Redmurty]

DW gis one (thumbs)

with a lot of touring left to do, and a lot on unclassified roads the Tiger seems to be getting heavier and I really don't fancy having to pick one up when I am on my own which is most of the time (billy no mates) I really like the idea of this bike

cheers Spud

cheers Spud

[FMFox]

I'm not going to continue to argue, as people are just looking for it, I really like the CCM and will consider buying one when I get home from my extended travels. I personally do not have a worry about the engine as I have met few people with BMW G450Xs in canada (in canda it was sold detuned in the same spec as is going in the ccm) and have stories of 50000+ trouble free miles. If the bike was availble 3 years ago we probably would have bought them to take on our trip. I truely believe that the CCM is in a class of it's own and there is really no direct competitor at the moment and those that "get it" want it and those that don't well MOST of them are happy to be by standers while those people that I'll never understand troll the bike.

For me the AJP is still too heavy and if they keep the same output as the tenere then only 7hp more powerful. The CCM approx 0.307 bhp per kilo as opposed to the suggested ajp igues would be 0.303 bhp per kilo on the assumption it has the same output as the yamaha. I really like the fact that they are putting this bike out there definetly a credible alternative to the mid range good luck AJP

As craig said neither of these bikes need to sell 1000s like the big manufactuers do because the bikes are built on much smaller production lines so the overheads in the new models are much lower so don't expect to see every one in your local sainsburys with one.

These bikes aren't for everyone as they have compromises, but to me an adventure bike will always be about the back-country rather than the motorway (I almost put freeway there, I've been in North America too long) but I totally understand that with limited time for your trip then the big roads are going to be traveled and a bike that can do 300 or miles in comfort is important.

In theory if these bikes sell well then maybe some of the big manufatuers will take note, and realize less can be more, doubtful however just imgaine yamahas reaction if on the release of the AJP they noticed sales of teneres slowed down.

More importantly do we really need to be so negative when some one tries to break the mould

[Crossrutted]

people that I'll never understand troll the bike.

good luck AJP

More importantly do we really need to be so negative when some one tries to break the mould

100% agree. Good Luck to both CCM and AJP.

I'd like to test ride both. CCM test is arranged.

DragonWheels, when will a AJP test bike be available?

[Tramp]

Well as.ccm lent minkyhead a bike to go play in portugal maybe Ajp would lend both me and crossrutted on of the pr7 bikes to play with around Braganca and give me the oppertunity to drown some one elses bike..

The trails would.sort the soft bikes.from the hardcore ones...fly into porto ride and have fun...

[Crossrutted]

Well as.ccm lent minkyhead a bike to go play in portugal maybe Ajp would lend both me and crossrutted on of the pr7 bikes to play with around Braganca and give me the oppertunity to drown some one elses bike..

The trails would.sort the soft bikes.from the hardcore ones...fly into porto ride and have fun...

Good idea Russ, are you going to ask them or shall I? (thumbs)