Wheels and tubes ..

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Richard Simpson Mark II
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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:07 pm

which is a fair point, Mike.

However, a vehicle that passes an MoT is not necessarily road legal in all aspects.

Some aspects of legality are not specified in the MoT test, and tyre pressure/inflation is one. You can present a vehicle with an under or overinflated tyre for test, and it won't be failed. Likewise you could have a tyre with a badly damaged bead, and it won't be picked up because it's not visible to the tester.

But I suspect that most testers would fail a bike if they knew it had a mousse installed on the basis of defect 'a' : an unsuitable tyre. This is a major defect.

I'll be convinced that using a mousse on a public road is not an offence when someone can produce a 'letter of no objection' to this from the mousse/tyre manufacturer.

The C&U regs are clear that motorcycles must be fitted with pneumatic tyres, and these are defined as tyres that will collapse when the internal pressure is released.

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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by No5 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:30 pm


Richard Simpson Mark II wrote:
The C&U regs are clear that motorcycles must be fitted with pneumatic tyres, and these are defined as tyres that will collapse when the internal pressure is released.
If this is the case, why is the Neutec Tubliss system not road legal?

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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:13 pm

a) I don't know that it's not...what do the manufacturers say?

I can only see an American website, where they say it's not for highway use, but that may be just because they don't have product liability insurance for it...which is a very big deal in the USA

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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by Hugh » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:38 pm

Greetings,

Don't confuse MOT requirements with those of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.

Within the legislation road going motorcycles have to be fitted with pneumatic tyres, which effectively means that they require a sealed internal air pressure. I am not a solicitor or such so I would refer you to;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/198 ... ter/C/made

Additionally, the manufacturers of mousses state and mark them as not being suitable for highway use, neither they are not fitted with an E mark.

Effectively you pay your money and takes your chance :!:

TTFN

Hugh.

Ps in relation to Tubliss, the manufacturer's fitting instructions clearly state "Nitromousse is NEVER to be used for on-road, or on-highway use."
MOUSSE INSTALLATION.pdf
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Mike54
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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by Mike54 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:24 pm

As mentioned, it is not for the manufacturer to dictate what is legal and what isn't. They can say all day long "not for highway use" but that doesn't make them illegal to use, it just means if you use them on the highway and something goes wrong with the set up, they're not liable. That's all. The manufacturers have no legal weight here, and they do not set the law, as I'm sure you all know.

A tyre can be road legal and e marked and contain a mousse. It could also surely be classed as a "resilient tyre" within the regs, and there is an exemption for motorcycles for pedestrian controlled vehciles and agricultural. yes that doesn't resolve it but the MOT itself does not mention a requirement for pnematic tyres (not that I can see anyway).

When Ross Hall was killed he was running tubliss. The police did not conclude that he was running an "illegal" system. Please don't lets go further into the Ross situation as he was a friend, and the accident was down to a crash, not the tyres.

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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by frenchy3 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:18 am

I recently purchased an SWM RS650S. The previous owner had done one rally and it had a mousse in the front. I only briefly rode the bike with it in and decided to change it for an inner tube. It was very difficult to get the tyre off(just think trying to remove a tyre with the inner tube still inflated) It made a hell of a mess as there was lube contaminated with rubber off the mousse like a thick black slime. When i removed the tyre and mousse the mousse was stuck to the inner of the tyre. Most of my riding is done on the road and gentle trails so i didn,t consider the mousse to be suitable. This was before i realized they were not legal for the road. I am just glad it was fitted to the front tyre and not the rear as a trip to my local bike shop may have been needed :oops: :oops: :oops:

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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by Scott_rider » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:22 am

I agree that Mousses are not suitable for extended road use as they can get too hot and disintegrate. They are probably also illegal. I ran mousses in my enduro bikes for years and always put a false valve over the the tube hole for MOT purposes. I'm not being a clever dick but I never had any problems at all including several high (ish) speed events like the Hafren Rally plus extended road work to and from the Berkshire downs. When I changed them (I mean when redbikejohn changed them for me :oops: ) they were always smaller than when they were originally fitted...i.e. they shrink...which clearly affects everything so they do have a shelf life. It's a calculated risk, I guess.
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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by Richard Simpson Mark II » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:49 pm

https://www.adventurebikerider.com/knob ... -legal-uk/


"What then about mousses (closed cell doughnuts that fit inside a tyre, leaving it invulnerable to punctures)?

The regulations (C&U 1986 r 24) oblige all motorcycle tyres to be pneumatic, defined in the regulations as having a chamber which has greater than atmospheric pressure – so far so good. But then it needs to be capable of inflation or deflation. Good luck doing that.

Finally, if deflated, it must allow the sides to collapse. In my view, a mousse does not meet construction and use regulations. However, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted or failing an MOT for mousses so, like a lot of laws, when policed with common sense, they’re not enforced. Don’t make the mistake of thinking a road traffic officer does not know these rules. If the officer has a fast car and a white cap, or is perched on a marked bike, it is a pretty safe bet he knows.

So, to stay entirely within law, your tyres must be E marked, at the manufacturer’s pressures unless you can give a truthful explanation as to why not, and blown up with air. "

I'm not aware of any rule change post-'86 that would allow a resilient tyre to be used on a motorcycle.

Given the cost of the things, and the need to remove, lube and replace regularly if you are to avoid them sticking to the tyre, I'd rather have the occasional puncture.

Most punctures can be avoided by:

1) Using good quality tubes

2) Paying attention to the condition of rim tapes and spokeheads when changing tyres

3) Running at appropriate pressures...mud low, stones high.

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Re: Wheels and tubes ..

Post by Mike54 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:40 am

There's a vast difference between offroad and road, and mousses are designed for offroad use, they're not suitable for fast road riding, but for trail riding with road links they're pretty much perfect. I do like tubliss as well, but thre is always a question re the high pressure inner, especially for somewhere like morocco, so its mousses for that.

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Wheels and tubes ..

Post by johnnyboxer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:31 am

Is it that big a hardship to mend a puncture in a tyre on the trail ??

Usually swapping a tube takes 20 mins on the trail

Running above 16psi avoids pinch punctures too

Do you need to run at 10 psi in reality on trails ?

I never found the need and usually run 20 psi all year round
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