Will a power commander help?

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FatFreddy
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Will a power commander help?

Post by FatFreddy »

Ok, so when I got my 2010 BMW F650gs twin, it already had an akropovic slip-on fitted.... well I assumed it was just a slip on, never thought to check (and tbh unless there some obvious way to tell the difference I’m not sure I’d be able to tell) if the headers are Akro too.

It does look a lovely bit of kit but the sound isn’t quite as throaty as I’d have expected. If it’s supposed to sound better than the original, the the stock silencer must be pretty quiet ?

I saw a little rubber bung on the underside of the carbon fibre end cap and wondered if that might be hiding a screw for a removable baffle. I went online and from what I can tell, it does, so that’s something I’ll be fiddling with soon. See how much louder it’ll be and whether or not I want to be “that noisy w*nker”.

Which leads me to the original reason for all this waffle.....

While looking on the Akropivic website at my slip-on, I spotted a little small print saying that if fitting this to your bike, to get the best performance, fit a power commander.

Like I said, I didn’t fit the pipe, so who knows, maybe there already is a power commander although I’ll be honest, I haven’t checked and wouldn’t know where to look for it.

Also, I noticed that inside the end of the pipe is looking very black and sooty. I won’t claim to know much about engines in this company (although down the pub with a pint or three inside me I’m a f*cking expert) but doesn’t that suggest its running a little rich?

Ever since I’ve had the bike I’ve felt it was missing a little torque at low revs but I put this down to me making the adjustment from a more powerful bike. I’m not looking for more speed, that’s why I bought the bike, to slow myself down a bit, but a bit more low down grunt would be good. (I have been toying with swapping the front sprocket for a smaller one to achieve this but not sure how that’ll affect the bike overall).

So, assuming there isn’t a power commander fitted......

Are they worth the money? I don’t have a big budget.

Are they easy to fit/set up?

Would it help with low rev power delivery or are they really about extra speed?

Would I be better off selling the Akro and getting an OE silencer off eBay? (My least fave option)

Any and all thoughts or opinions gratefully received, Thanks in advance.
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Re: Will a power commander help?

Post by daveuprite »

As a general rule, when fitting aftermarket exhausts you should be looking to deliver what used to be known as a Stage 1 tune (in the old carburettor days). Which means cleaning up fuel flow, breathing and power delivery, whilst hopefully smoothing out any lumps and bumps in the dyno curve. Best way to do it is by taking time on a dyno to get it right, and on FI bikes use a power commander / remap and a knowledgeable dyno operative. It matters most when you have fitted a full system (headers and end pipe), which can actually ruin power delivery if they are not dialled in correctly.

The benefits can be huge. I got an extra 22 bhp out of a 954 Blade with just a £400 Hindle system, a PCIII and 3 hours dyno time. And importantly the bike was much more rideable from lower revs with a lovely fat dollop of torque in the mid-range. On an 800GS don't expect bhp benefits like that, but you should be looking at a more responsive feel, better acceleration through the gears especially in the mid-range where you want it, and slightly better fuel economy.

It really is worth the effort and expense in most cases. A genuine Dynojet PC (now on Version 5) would be about £250, but they sometimes come up secondhand on ebay when people return their bikes to standard for resale. Dyno time is upwards of £50 per hour.

So if you have the PC and the headers already on your bike you have a big headstart. First thing is to look in your battery compartment, or underneath the tank cover, or in the tail unit - which are the most likely places a PC might have been fitted. And check the headers to see if you have a full system. Then get researching tune-ups that others have done to the same model.
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Scott_rider
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Re: Will a power commander help?

Post by Scott_rider »

+1 with what daveuprite said above 8-) .

If you fit any aftermarket exhaust or performance farkle I'd always get the bike set up on a dyno or by someone who knows what they are doing, regardless of what the manufacturer of the farkle says.

My current CBF1000A had Delkevic slip ons on it when I bought it with a note from Delkevic that no tuning is required. In practice the bike runs much, much better with the standard Honda cans that I put back on it.

I had an '05 KTM 400 EXC that was standard but I put it on a dyno and they set it up for me. The improvement was staggering. The best £125 that I ever spent on that bike (the one in my avatar).

In 1994 I had an 893cc Fireblade with a Micron can. I then got it set up with a dyno jet stage 3 kit and the difference was fantastic.

So, yes. Get a power commander for it or a session on a dyno. You won't regret it 8-) .
Suzuki GSX-S1000F...the KTM 450 EXC-R has gone
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Re: Will a power commander help?

Post by Steve T »

I've got the akro can on my F8GS and with the baffle in its actually quieter than the original can :o

With the baffle out it's just a bit burblier and tends to pop and fart a bit more.

Best of luck with squeezing any more power out of the engine with next to no expenditure.

I fitted the front sprocket from a F8GS to my old F650GS twin and it brings the revs up by just under 500 revs in top, making it slightly more tractable in all gears. I did it cos I use all my big traillies off road when ever possible, and the F650GS twin was no execption - that small change in gearing helped a good bit on inclines and looser surfaces.

Best of luck with your quest for more power.

Steve T

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FatFreddy
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Re: Will a power commander help?

Post by FatFreddy »

Thanks all. To be clear, it’s not that I was actually on a mission to find more power (apart from maybe the price of a front sprocket, I shall definitely be getting an f800 one soon). Originally I was more curious about how different it’d sound without the baffle. But then that small print about a pc got me thinking.
Perhaps if the bike wasn’t set up properly for the Akro, maybe there was some power being lost as a result? I mean it’s billed on the Motorrad website as improving performance, although not by a great deal so I was never expecting it to become a fire breather.
Anyway, I shall heed your advice, as and when finances allow and see what happens eh?
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Re: Will a power commander help?...and other questions.

Post by FatFreddy »

Ok, so I pulled off that little rubber bung on the end cap of my exhaust looking for a screw or bolt that would allow me to remove the baffle...... and there nothing there but a hole. It looks as if the last owner has already removed the baffle. Or I am missing something obvious?
And there was me thinking my exhaust note was a little too civilised.
I have to say, for the claimed 2bhp increase, if I'd paid out the £700 asking price for this I'd be a bit disappointed. Pretty much a purely cosmetic change.

Question(s): if the exhaust outlet is black and sooty, DOES that mean it's running a bit rich, or am I wrong? (It does backfire sometimes on the overrun).
If so, surely that means there is a fuelling issue? And if so, rather than unleashing that extra 2bhp of raw power, the Akro' is actually doing the opposite?
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Re: Will a power commander help?

Post by frenchy3 »

I had a BMW F800gs with a fuel end can but it also had the Remus de-cat header pipes which is where the major restriction is. This then had a power commander to set up the air/fuel ratio correctly.It also had a K&N air filter. The power commander was fitted under the seat. The bike was set up on a dyno but i cant remember who did it as the work had been done before i got the bike. It had just over 86 bhp at the wheel(average of three dyno runs) and i think the original spec of the bike stated it had 80 bhp at the crank. The bike had a custom engine map but the standard one supplied with the power commander would easily compensate for a de-cat header pipe and slip on end can. The bike ran superbly at all rev ranges and pulled better than my old 1980 Laverda Jota! Unless you are running the bike flat out all the time you will always see sooty deposits on the exhaust outlet and i would sooner see this than light grey or white which would indicate a lean condition. The Fuel end can had a nice burble at idle was very civilized at cruising speed but had a very pleasant tone when opened up. I dont like loud exhausts and this was more than acceptable. I hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction. To finish i would say you do not have to have a power commander but if you have the bike set up properly it will pay dividends in terms of power and rideability. Backfire on the over run would suggest a lean condition and if it were a carburated bike you would suggest adjusting the fuel mixture screw or possibly go up one on the pilot jet but as the injection system cannot be altered without a re-programmed ECU or a power commander.
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Re: Will a power commander help?

Post by OnHellas »

Another and possibly more financially rewarding would to be source a very tidy secondhand standard end can and sell the Akrapovic.
You’ll probably end up with a bike that runs as it should and some money left over for petrol......eBay would obviously be a good starting point.
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Re: Will a power commander help?

Post by frenchy3 »

OnHellas wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:41 am Another and possibly more financially rewarding would to be source a very tidy secondhand standard end can and sell the Akrapovic.
You’ll probably end up with a bike that runs as it should and some money left over for petrol......eBay would obviously be a good starting point.
I agree. You can pick up standard pipes quite easily as many people change them. I was one of the worst culprits for buying a standard bike which is more than capable of exceeding everything i needed it to do then spending hundreds of pounds on accessories that i didn,t really need only to get bored and sell the bike never seeing any of my money back again. I will be thinking more carefully about this in the future. Other than luggage racks i dont think i need any add on extras. I even believe that unless you are doing one of those trips that lead you to the middle of nowhere even a bikes standard fuel tank will give you a days riding and there are no shortage of fuel stations where i ride. I am probably the accessory manufacturers ideal customer but hopefully i can change that. :oops: :oops: :oops:
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FatFreddy
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Re: Will a power commander help?

Post by FatFreddy »

OnHellas wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:41 am Another and possibly more financially rewarding would to be source a very tidy secondhand standard end can and sell the Akrapovic.
You’ll probably end up with a bike that runs as it should and some money left over for petrol......eBay would obviously be a good starting point.
That’s sort of where I’m going with this myself. I have to admit I’m very tempted to throw another few hundred quid at it for gizmos and Dyno testing, but whatever I do it’s never going to be a fire breather....... frankly I think an oe can and one tooth less on the front sprocket will be a much cheaper way of achieving what I’m after.....A little more torque in lower gears.
It’s taken me a while to adjust but I didn’t buy this bike to go fast on, I bought it to slow myself down a little, and to enjoy the ride rather than scare myself all the time.

They say motorcycling is simply an attempt to recapture youth, well when I was a youth, I remember doing 200 miles in a weekend on my Honda C50 step through, never going faster than 40 mph and never going much more than 5 miles from home, but loving every bloody minute of it.
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