There's something wrong with the starter or or the top end

[Cleo]

I know in the other post I ask about battery's but should have said this first


I got a bike from a friend yesterday (he only had 2-3 days and had enough :blink: ) it's a 98 XF650 (freewind) not a popular model at all, I'd never heard of them either and I've been about bikes for over 30 years, anyway..

To my knowledge from him that the seller told him, it runs then stops

So far what I've found out - the battery isn't spinning the engine hardly at all, but when I put it another friends bike (CCM R30 (644) ) and spins very fast and starts within seconds.

Mine so far..I've got to jump it from the car, when it starts after a few seconds theres a lot of oily grey smoke coming from the rocker area then metallic screeching. After changing the oil last night and starting it again, I briefly started it, I noticed that the oil wasn't moving from the window in the casing then a few seconds later screeching of metal started so turned if off quickly.

After talking to the friend with the CCM (which is 99% the same engine) we said the oil pump and/or pipes must be blocked, so I'll hopefully get the pump shortly.

But its this hardly spinning carry on with a new battery that's got a cca of 180 but yet in his bike it's starts it within seconds....is mine kind of seized, will I need to at least take the top end off and have a proper look

If I do need new engine parts or another engine, they're not cheap, infact an engine (and so far I've only one in Germany) and is 400 odd hmy:

Any help and advice on this greatly appreciated...I also know that not being a popular bike it's hard, although its dam near the same engine as the DR too

[zimtim]

Could be cam chain
Has any top end work been done on bike previously as a possibility could be that the cam shaft was either over torqued or under torqued.
Oil pump a possibility.
If you have only had it a couple of days I would ask for money back.

Sounds to me like you have a real pup

[DaveCon]

I'm not familiar with this particular engine, but certainly on old British bikes if there is a problem with crankcase breathing (basically removing gasses and vapours from underneath the piston) huge oily smoke finds its way out of anywhere as pressure builds. Just a though, good luck

[redbikejohn]

Its not spinning it due to a seized mechanical item. Most likely a cam bearing seeing as there is smoke coming out there. Or something else in the cases and its pushing out smoke from the breather. Either way DO NOT RUN IT AGAIN! it will need a total strip down and repair / check of every component in the engine, including the crank.
£400 for a replacement engine is more than likely a cheaper option unless you are mechanically very competent.

[Richard Simpson]

The replacement engine sounds like a better option than an attempted repair to me, providing it's OK

But the best option of all would be to get your money back, and buy an Aprilia Pegaso, which is a similar bike, only about 100 times better.

[Cleo]

Zimtim....I know what I was I getting so there's no need to ask for cash back

Dave...there's a breather but doubt that's the problem

John....so there's a bearing in the cam, I know, I don't intend starting it till I find what's wrong

What I can say

I think the oil pump's duff...cause with fresh stuff in, I did start it (as I don't any other way to test if it's a duffer or or but only for a few secs).... But the oil in the window didn't move so that tell me the pump's buggered. Plus there might be a split in the braided hope from the front that goes to the oil cooler as it's covered in oil/gunk as is the front of the engine and down tube.

The other oil pipes look fine and there's oil coming out so I don't think they're blocked, I really it's a duff pump but it's what other damage its (maybe) did.

I'll get the oil pipe checked for leaks, if ok then I'll probably get a pump (25), another engine's about 400


Meant to say.....how do you tell/know/test a faulty oil pump....when in your hand, will the cog/pulley be loose or will teeth be missing, what...

I've never saw or played with duff oil pump to tell

[redbikejohn]

There might be a bearing there. My ktm ran in normal sealed bearings but jap bikes I've worked on in the past ran a plain bearing setup ie runs on a film of oil on the head. If the pump is u/s (as you suspect) the head will be u/s as well and plenty more as well.

[Cleo]

What's "u/s" mean.... I'm guessing unservicable

So think the head's more than likely had it as well as other stuff, maybe big ends (there's knocking though when was running/idling albeit for a few secs or at most 2-3 mins)

[Richard Simpson]

The oil pump is likely to be the least of your problems. If it's pumping oil up to the top end of the engine (oil coming out of the lines) then it's probably OK.

Is it a dry sump engine (oil in frame or a separate tank?) or wet sump (oil filler cap on engine?).

If there's a horrible scraping noise coming from the engine, then the engine oil circuit will be full of debris and there will be bad internal damage. If you are lucky it will just be the top end, but you will need to split the bottom end too, just to be sure.

Buy a Clymer or Haynes manual for the bike and see what special tools are required to strip & rebuild the engine. Find the price of a full gasket/seal kit. Add a couple of £100 for other parts. Add the lot together and that's the low-end of the projected cost of rebuilding the engine assuming there's nothing too seriously wrong with it.

The £400 engine is probably a better bet. Might even be worth contacting CCM in Bolton and Haines Motorcycles in the Forest of Dean to see if they have spare engines, or can supply parts at lower than Suzuki prices. I've also found Fowlers of Bristol good for Suzuki spares.

[Cleo]

You think a rebuild or other engine are only things to do