How "off road" is and off road tyre? ABR tyre test.

bowber · Post by **bowber** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:56 pm

After looking at the tyre test for the new TKC70's in this month ABR it got me thinking what do the tyre manufacturers think is off road?

I currently use Cont trail attack 2s on my KTM 950 and they are pants on anything slippery like mud or wet grass, fantastic on the road though and ok on dry mud or even wet gravel etc.
I also used to do supermoto and have recently had a 640 supermoto with Pirelli Diablo super corse tyres fitted, these are about as close to a road legal slick as you can get, and I was happy going over the same ground as I would using the Contis' and with the same grip levels.
Basically my thinking is that the tread on the Conti does very little and when you need tread for slippery stuff it's not enough so you need something more aggressive like the TKC80 or endure tyres.
I've also use Mefo SE rear and explorer front on the KTM during winter trail riding and while the rear managed the front would try to dump me on the ground with monotonous regularity.
If I was to set off on a trip were I thought I'd end up "off road" with no stone or gravel I'd not be using anything less than say the Karoo 3 or TKC80 type tyres or even just endure tyres. I suppose you've got to balance the mileage with the off road grip but there is nothing worse than trying to get a 200Kg bike up a long, slight slope when it's just mud or wet grass.

So to me these tyres are not off road tyres, they have a slight bias towards helping you get some grip on a muddy campsite or a gravel road were part of it will be muddy but still stone underneath, maybe they work ok in sand but that's something I have no experience with.

Steve

micky1 · Post by **micky1** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:06 pm

can see any tyre doing mud and tar tbh.

two sets of wheels is the answer

Mike54 · Post by **Mike54** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:58 pm

micky1 wrote:can see any tyre doing mud and tar tbh.

two sets of wheels is the answer

Too right. Staggers me the number of people who post wanting a tyre that is

Grippy on tarmac
Grippy offroad
lasts for thousands of miles

:laugh:

scoobydidler · Post by **scoobydidler** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:22 pm

Totally agree with bowber, my tenere came with tourances, supposedly dual purpose which they are blatantly not. I changed to tkc's which are really impressive on the road which is almost irrelevant as we're not going out scratching on these bikes. They're no good in mud at all so in short I'm going for full knobblies, especially in winter and il live with the wear rate.

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bowber · Post by **bowber** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:09 pm

So the TKC's are no good in the mud as well? I must admit I've not seen a brand new set so I've no idea of the dread depth.
I was looking at the Mitas E09 tyres for this winter but they do look a bit bar/paddle like in the rear tread.

I might try my Mefo SE rear with a Pirelli MT21 front as I already have the rear.

I have to wonder if the dual sports 50/50 tyres are just a gimmick though, I suppose if you have more confidence in the tyre then you'll ride over the slipping and sliding even when the grip levels may be just the same as a road tyre.
I'll add that I've not done any testing so my comments are from my own experiences.

Steve

Mike54 · Post by **Mike54** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:42 pm

Any tyre that isn't a fully knobbly is going to be crap in mud.

scoobydidler · Post by **scoobydidler** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:52 pm

I'm sure there's a horses for courses argument here but I'm only going with what I've found. I'm new to big bikes but not a novice to off road. I ride trials so have a decent feeling for grip. I ride a tenere which is heavy and low powered with soggy suspenders so assuming you're not going like hell that's not a bad combo for finding grip. The tkc's work a treat on the rocky going you find like the strata weekend it wales, similarly up in the rocky going in the lakes where grip is plentiful. I even get the feeling with them I could run much lower pressures than people talk about running, typically close to 30psi. I'd be confident to run em at 18-20 offroad.

That said, the slightest bit of mud or wet grass and I can do nowt with em, I've tried feeling for grip and caning it to clean the tread out and I don't find a big difference. Then there's guys on 990,s/690's running them than come past me digging in and driving. (Silverfox springs to mind) but these bike have way more power and a totally different power delivery.
There will be guys running em on teneres that rate them I'm sure, just my two pennerth worth. I'm still wide open to suggestions?

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Agent Orange · Post by **Agent Orange** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:49 pm

I have a mefo on the rear and MT21 on the front, best combo yet. Front is great off road (copped very well on the Plain with all the chalky tracks. Mefo was good too off road, gripped well and was predictable) On road the Mefo is great (ran em at 25 and 28 psi, any lower on the front and pinch flats I reckon) Have had the MT21 on for about 2.5k at the mo and is on its last legs with very strange wear pattern, it grips well on road too (unless you really push it when worn, as I found out on the Welsh weekend, whilst leading a road ride, cornering at about 70/80 :woohoo: ), just give it respect in the wet.
I have tried the Dunlop 908/TKC combo too, 908 was pretty good off road and gripped well in most conditions except really deep mud, where the bike would sink and bottom out on the bash plate, suction etc. If you pinned it, it would just spin and spin great fun. TKC new okay but when worn like a front scorp off road pants.
I reckon the 908 and MT21 would be a good combo, but 908 would be shot at 4K ish
Mefo is okay too about 6K+, so two front MT21's to one Mefo is the going rate.
HTHs

picos mestizo · Post by **picos mestizo** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:06 pm

micky1 wrote:can see any tyre doing mud and tar tbh.

two sets of wheels is the answer

There's plenty of tyres that can cope well on mud & tarmac, might not last too long on tarmac but you'll be surprised what angle of lean & speed they'll do.
To name but one the Maxxis IT's are excelent on mud & I believe rated @ over 100 mph.

: maxxisit.png (44.19 KiB) Viewed 1613 times

No tyres are any good on wet grass except these:-

: russianicetyre.jpg (145.65 KiB) Viewed 1613 times

AndyB · Post by **AndyB** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:29 pm

It depends on where you want to ride, how heavy your bike is and how fast you want to ride it.

Any full knobbly will work in mud but it'll make the front end vague at speed on tarmac and they're noisy. On my Tenere I prefer to have Conti Trail Attacks because you can get some crazy lean angles on the road, I find they wear more evenly than Tourances and they're ok in the wet. On my little KTM I just buy whatever road legal knobblies I can get easily and accept that they're close to being dangerous on the road, crap on smooth rock but good on either dry dirt/shale or in muddy conditions.

It's easier to select the bike for the conditions than it is to change wheels or tyres to suit conditions so all you GS owners should forget spending a grand on a spare set of wheels and just spend the same on a lighter trail bike that's much more fun to ride off road.