Carnet de Passage Petition

[Nickw909]

Thread over on the HUBB about a petition to the RAC about cost of a carnet.
Please have a read and sign.

Thread.



Petition.

[Dave DRZ]

Just to spoon feed anyone who needs it:

Here is the petition https://www.change.org/p/fia-break-the- ... rac-carnet

And here is a thread discussing the issue http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/t ... -rac-68191

In brief; the RAC are the only company that issues Carnet to UK overlanders wanting to go beyond Europe, they changed their own rules in 2013 to make it much more expensive - in my own example it will cost £1500 to get a Carnet to get to India, but before the changes it might have only cost £200. There's no competition in the UK for this service and the RAC hold the power over other countries not being allowed to issue them to us. They have a monopoly, and taking the mickey with their new rules.


Dave

[Mike54]

I'd have thought it would be more beneficial to write to the transport minister and your local MP and MEP about this. A petition is unlikely to do anything at all, especially since they need over 100,000 signatures to even get looked at.

[Dave DRZ]

It's not my petition Mike, it's just coincidental that I need a CdP in the next few months and the thread on the Hubb has been resurrected. The benefit of the petition would be to show some of the support for the issue in the wider biking community - the numbers involved in applying for CdP are tiny (I think I've read somewhere that only 400 people a year apply in the UK both cars and bikes).

As well as the petition, I'm trying to negotiate with the RAC and trying contact some members of the All Party Parliamentary Motorcycle Group to see if it is an issue they'd champion. Fingers crossed for that.

Your suggestion of contacting an MEP is a good one I hadn't thought about... I'll look into it. Cheers.

Dave

[Bernard Smith]

Just to spoon feed anyone who needs it:

Here is the petition https://www.change.org/p/fia-break-the- ... rac-carnet

And here is a thread discussing the issue http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/t ... -rac-68191

In brief; the RAC are the only company that issues Carnet to UK overlanders wanting to go beyond Europe, they changed their own rules in 2013 to make it much more expensive - in my own example it will cost £1500 to get a Carnet to get to India, but before the changes it might have only cost £200. There's no competition in the UK for this service and the RAC hold the power over other countries not being allowed to issue them to us. They have a monopoly, and taking the mickey with their new rules.


Dave

A carnet cost of £200? You riding an eBay push bike?

[Dave DRZ]

Just to spoon feed anyone who needs it:

Here is the petition https://www.change.org/p/fia-break-the- ... rac-carnet

And here is a thread discussing the issue http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/t ... -rac-68191

In brief; the RAC are the only company that issues Carnet to UK overlanders wanting to go beyond Europe, they changed their own rules in 2013 to make it much more expensive - in my own example it will cost £1500 to get a Carnet to get to India, but before the changes it might have only cost £200. There's no competition in the UK for this service and the RAC hold the power over other countries not being allowed to issue them to us. They have a monopoly, and taking the mickey with their new rules.


Dave

A carnet cost of £200? You riding an eBay push bike?

There are examples on the HUBB thread http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/t ... post489427 & http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/t ... post489487

The ADAC system uses a bank deposit which is refunded 100% when the bike returns to the home country, so the ultimate costs of the CdP is a few hundred Euro. But the RAC use an insurance system that only refunds 50% of the premium on return - costing thousands (in my simple example I would lose £1545).

Dave

[Bernard Smith]

Ahhhh I see.

You were talking about the comparison between RAC versus ADAC without actually mentioning it........ (thumbs)

But the question still stands really.

My carnet cost 1000 in 2008 and yet yours would have cost 200 before the RAC changed the rules in 2013 :whistle:

(Scratches head about bike for 500 percent of value costing 40£) :woohoo:

But then again. Are you again comparing it to Germany?

[Dave DRZ]

Ahhhh I see.

You were talking about the comparison between RAC versus ADAC without actually mentioning it........ (thumbs)

But the question still stands really.

My carnet cost 1000 in 2008 and yet yours would have cost 200 before the RAC changed the rules in 2013 :whistle:

(Scratches head about bike for 500 percent of value costing 40£) :woohoo:

But then again. Are you again comparing it to Germany?

I'm new to this Bernard - 2015 will be my first need for a Carnet -but from what can gather the RAC used to have a range of financial security options for CdP up until 2013 (insurance indemnity, full cash deposit and bank guarantee) but now only offer the insurance indemnity and only offer to pay back 50% of the premium. For me, based on a bike worth £5,000 going to India through Iran and Pakistan the costs will be:
[ul]
[li]10 page CdP(to get through Iran, Pakistan and India) = £220[/li]
[li]Refundable deposit = £350[/li]
[li]Country specific payment (Security Rate at 500% of £5000 = £25, 000. 10.6% security risk rate = £2650) = £2650[/li]
[li]Total payable upfront for CdP = £3,220[/li]

[li]The refund (assuming the bike makes it back in one piece) will eventually be the deposit plus 50% of the security risk rate (£350 + £1,325) = £1,675[/li]
[/ul]

Meaning that the whole CdP will cost £1545. That's crazy

ADAC (the AA in Germany) still offers a range of financial security options all of which include a full refund of deposits and premiums, meaning that the overall costs are much, much smaller than the RAC's current model. The Bank Guarantee can be secured against your mortgage, assuming you have enough capital, for a small fee (less than £100) and the costs for ADAC to issue the CdP is 195 Euro for members or 295 Euros for non members. So, not £200 more like £400 with fees, but nowhere near £1545.

There is evidence on the HUBB thread that UK drivers / riders have used ADAC in the past (you know, we're all in the EU) and there is a page on the ADAC website written in English, but that now RAC aren't allowing this to happen.

Frustrating.

Dave

[Bernard Smith]

I understand the frustration Dave and totally concur with it. The relative UK costs are one of the reasons I've always used older bikes - plus I can fix them.

And yes, all the figures you've quoted is the way it runs.

And yes, before 2013 it was more of an 'insurance policy' really through Lloyds. The beauty was that using older - cheaper - bikes made it financially ok.

Now, the cost would be prohibitive I would think for any new whizz bang bike; without a chunk of money to write off.

That's why so many people now head for the Americas where it's not needed (but is 'advised' for some places).

It's also true that Europe itself is actually huge to travel but it doesn't have the 'smack in the face' for many people such as 'going to India/Iran/Pakistan/Russia'.

I have no doubt the current provision is anti-competitive and I also have no doubt the RAC refusing to support applications through ADAC would fall foul of EU law. But until somebody takes them to the Commission itself ............

I've bounced the petition onto my FB page and will give it some stroking but the physical numbers signing it will make it very hard to get anything fired up properly ........ if MAG had any credibility left it would have been one for them...........

[Bernard Smith]

The RAC have contacted me through Twitter - Jesus that was quick..........