Should we advertise green lanes?

[dave_ac]

Not read issue 10 of ABR yet, but issue 9 got me thinking.......

I used to live close to Portland and climb there before the first Rock Fax guide was published, it was a brilliant guide book and introduced the area to many people while encouraging loads of new routes. In no time at all, many popular climbing routes would see people queuing, rocks becoming worn and polished, paths and faint trails with increasing issues of erosion. The guide did a lot of good but there was a cost.......

Returning to publishing the details of green lanes in ABR or on line makes me wonder what the cost is to the environment, the reputation of motorcycles, access, etc.

I'd welcome anyone's comments......

Just so you know where I am coming from I live in Scotland and have spent the last few weeks trail riding in Spain ( was supposed to get to Morocco but plans had to change ) over mountains across plains, snow, mud, dust and rivers.

[jaz1259]

Yes I can see where you are coming from, I myself only have one or two lanes near me. I welcome the knowledge of new lanes as I can plan day trips out too them.
Which I'm sure a lot of others are thinking too.

I think we should all be responsible not to be ripping up the tracks but on the same sense they are maintained by council and we sure pay enough taxes.

I have looked many a time on Internet for green lanes and they aren't easy to find, that's why I think common ones get hammered so if more were published would it mean people have more of a choice and so don't just use the Same ones.

[Mike54]

I feel pretty uncomfortable when lanes are publicised in magazines. All that happens is that hundreds of people descend on them within weeks of the publishing date. Tracks get cut up, locals complain and before you know it the lane has a TRO.

There has recently been a big problem with total offroad magazine doing this. They put tulip diagrams of welsh lanes in 2 mags and they were instantly overused causing huge problems with the farmers and locals. It's easy magazine filler but totally misplaced and not thought though.

I don't think it's necessary to publicise them anyway. The information is easy to find with some easy research a maybe a couple of emails to a council etc. Too many riders and 4x4 drivers just blindly go off and end up on lanes which are now closed, they get photographed and it's a big problem. Too many also do them the "wrong" way round when there are voluntary one ways in place (and the most recent example of this is on the protest ride in the peaks the other week).

[Mad Cow]

Well the vast majority of them can be found on Ordnance Survey Maps as well as on-line resources such as www.trailwise.org.uk and as jaz rightly points out they are public roads so no more "secret" than the ones covered in tarmac.

The trick is not to promote those that are liable to damage and only those with relatively sustainable surfaces. The good news is of course that bike traffic does very little damage, sadly this is not true of all users and a certain 4x4 publication that publishes regular "road books" has certainly been responsible for accelerated wear in areas near me having driven lanes before publication and then two weeks after, the difference was marked. Indeed the same publication included a Restricted Byway (RB) in a route, when I challenged the editor over this one he claimed to check all his routes on trailwise. On checking I found that a user had posted the information that it wasn't an RB but had been "upgraded" to Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT). Sadly this was completely false information and does highlight the occasional danger of using user generated information.

Even if a green lane is published in a magazine or on-line please remember the situation doesn't stay fixed, the Wayfarer for instance (current edition) has been subject to several Temporary Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO) for repair in the past.

So i am in favour of promoting routes as long as they are sustainable, the information is accurate and as far as possible up to date.

Mike B has done a fairly good of job of that in ABR to date :laugh:

Edit: Well I wasn't going to mention the 4x4 Mag by name but Mike54 did anyway, so now you know. It always has seemed a contradiction that a magazine claiming to be "Totally Off Road" then goes and promotes routes that are of course "on road". But I suppose "Total Off Tarmac" isn't such a snappy title

[Mike54]

MC - we met the T.O. people at an exhibition recently. Three of the firms there have pulled their advertising because of the damage the publicity of lanes is doing, and their cavalier attitude towards it. I'm not speculating by the way, the firms are run by mates and I heard it and saw it first hand.

You're absolutely right though about checking because maps are mostly outdated with what's ok and what isn't. Simplest thing is to check with the council concerned.

[Ted99uk]

I hesitate to raise a contentious subject that has been argued over many times.
Many years ago, when TBM (trail bike magazine) started up it was hugely successful in promoting green lanes and trail-riding.
The same thing happened then and the huge increase in numbers of trail riders, including LOTS of hooligan behavior on fast enduro bikes, led to much agro, and arguably led to the Countrside and Rights of Way act of (about) 2002.
I discussed it with Si Melber (TBM founder) and he absolutely denied any responsibility.
What is not in dispute is that Si did a fantastic job in promoting trail-riding.

My only comment regarding putting trails in ABM is we should not promote any trails whose status is or could be questionable, as we don't want to lose any more due to overuse.

Ted.

[beddowsm]

Hello All,

Ive been waiting for this post to crop up for a while now so figured Id better put my point forward.

When I first started trail riding 2 years ago there was very little advice out there regarding trail riding for newbie’s and everyone I asked via forums seemed none too helpful pointing me in the right directions. So I learnt the hard way. I did a lot of solo trail riding and got into a few tricky (or sticky) situations. And I quickly learned that the best way to find out about Green Laning was to get maps, mark them up and get out there and have a go. I quickly realised that an OS map alone is not the best way to find the legal lanes, just because they are marked up doesn’t mean they are 100% legal. Lane status’s are changing all the time from temp TRO’s to perm TRO’s.

All the Green Lane information is publicly available if you know where to look, OS maps, Trailwise (that anyone who forks out £45 to the TRF can get full access to, not exactly none publising the lanes is it?). Infact, if you take a look at some council websites the information for their Green Lanes is on there. So its not hidden information at all.

I thought long and hard about if writing the articles was the right thing to do. Let me ask this question.

When a lane is going to be closed what happens. And the answer is we are seeing more and more threads on the forums asking people to object by sending emails / letters forward to the relevant people. If more and more people were using the lanes in the first place wouldn’t they be harder to close? Ive visited plenty of lanes that are not being used (they are not closed) and are in a terrible state, overgrown and barley usable. Now if someone came along and suggested closing the route what benefit could arguing about it be if they are not being used in the first place? Obviously this doesn’t apply to the high impact lanes that people think are being over used but its another way of thinking about things. If lanes are kept secret for a select few is this really the right way of keeping the lanes open?

Also, with the amount of rideouts that are currently being done more and more people are finding the lanes this way. So just a few articles in magazines are hardly going to impact IMO. If people are worried about “tossers on crossers”, to be honest, I don’t think this type of person will fork out £4.25 for the privilege of a couple of lanes.

Regarding the “wrong” approach to lanes and not adhering to VTRO’s, eg one way voluntary ways on some routes, Stanage and Roych in the Peaks being 2 high impact routes. Ive stated on a previous thread this is a delicate situation but Voluntary means just that. I feel that its not the bikes causing problems. If you can achieve a lane “the wrong” way without causing damage then whats the problem? If you stick to the trail and don’t go off piste (accidents and mistakes do happen) then I don’t see any harm. If you cant do the trail this way then you should not attempt. Common sense has to come into play.

I for one don’t want lanes closing as a cause of the articles and look forward to reading other peoples views.
Remember, use the lanes in a responsible, none damaging manner and there shouldn’t be any issues, slow down for horses and other trail users, walkers, climbers etc etc. Be polite and stop and have a chat with a few other users. Respect farmers who may need to use the lanes for their work and access. I haven’t come across any other users who have been abusive towards me or others in any of my rideouts. And if I ever did I for one would stop, remove my helmet and have a chat in a calm manner.

Thanks for reading my points.
Mike

[Throttled]

I would like details to be published, along with warnings about lane conditions, damage reports and info on problems and reminders of any codes of practice.

[Mad Cow]

Code of practice?

The only one you need, and no you don't need to be a TRF member to follow it...

The TRF Code of Conduct

Use only vehicular rights of way.

Trail riding is only lawful on public roads. If in doubt, check with the Highway
Authority or the TRF. Motorcycles and riders must be road-legal. Green lanes
are subject to the same laws as surfaced roads.

Keep to the defined way across farmland.

Wheels can damage crops and grass. Wandering from the road onto farmland
or moorland is trespassing.

Give way to walkers, horses and cyclists.

As a courtesy, On narrow lanes, stop and switch off engines.

Fasten gates to safeguard stock.

Except those tied open for farming purposes. An open gate invites animals to
stray, endangering themselves, and crops or traffic.

Travel at a safe speed.

Ride at a reasonable speed, taking regard of conditions and visibility. This
should not exceed the voluntary maximum of 25mph.

Ride quietly.

Machines must be effectively silenced. Use the throttle with discretion, as
noise does offend. Green lanes are subject to the same laws as surfaced
roads.

Honour the country code.

Respect the countryside and those who live, work and play in it. Green lanes
can be valuable habitats, so take special care in spring and early summer.

Acknowledge the presence of other green lane users
With a friendly wave or other suitable gesture

ldentify yourself.

Carry your membership card with you when trail riding, so that you may
identify yourself as a current member of the TRF - and display a current
membership sticker.

[Tramp]

oh err hmy:

very good post Mike [beddows] and sums up my thoughts exactly and Mad Cow is right too in my opinion ..

its hard for novices to find info that is both up todate and helpfull on the trail types ie: rutted,boggy or rocky etc...

I think published ones should carry a disclaimer and a "good behaviour guide" and what size bikes and abilities are needed..

For too long its been closed doors to the "big bikes" as we are not the normal riders on the trails..

A general "how to get started" on green lanes would be good although we had a very good article in a earlier edition of the mag..

you will always get someone doing the wrong thing in all hobbies ..shame but thats folk..

becareful and enjoy the outdoors and respect others using it as we all do