Electric bikes and cars - get real

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Simon_100
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by Simon_100 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:22 pm

Gavinskii wrote:
Paul_XRV750 wrote:Interesting thread. Is it true though that a lot of insurers won't even insure an electric car, and of those that will, insurance costs are prohibitively high?
Not in my experience it's not. I am with Admiral for all my cars and I paid less than £250 fully comp on a £30k (list) Leaf Tekna (which I am now starting my 3rd year of ownership of).

I leased it from new for 2 years (not wishing to be on the bleeding edge with new technology) and was so impressed I bought it (at a specially reduced GMFV) last month B)
That's very interesting point about the lease/buy option Gav.

Two things that cry out from the thread is that a) it's often a lifestyle thing and b) mostly based on owning different vehicles for various uses rather than having one that fits all.

In a few years we'll be retiring and spending lots of time in our cottage in the Pyrenees, where our weekly mileage - well Kms of course! - is local journeys of around 40 kms each, say three of for days per week, and then every month or so we decamp to the pied-à-terre on the Med., which right in a medieval city centre where we rarely if ever use the car during the two or three weeks we spend there each time.

What we have now is a Renault Kangoo combi the we bought new in 2002 and will keep until it drops, say another five to eight years. Meanwhile for 'fun' we have the bikes and the Lada Niva, which we use exclusively in mountain trails, the way you would. But when we get towards our seventies I can see a time when we won't want to do the drive down to the coast, which is on the busy national highways, and just need a runaround for up here, taking longer camping trips in the Niva, despite the terrible consumption, or maybe - actually preferably buying an van to convert for camping trips with the husky - that the version with teeth! - and the Beta Alp in the back.

We get an amazing amount of sun here but even still when we refurbish the cottage we're thinking of just solar heat exchangers for the hot water rather than a solar electricity system - we probably won't be around long enough to enjoy the saving - but a small dedicated system for topping up the car would make sense.

Years ago we looked seriously at a farm high in the mountains that wood have to be totally off-grid, for everything, and it just isn't make any sense whatsoever, so the watchword is 'hybrid' lifestyle rather than hybrid car perhaps ...

Regs

Simon

PS older cars will be banned from Barcelona as of next year - but of you chose to drive there for fun you really need a new psychiatrist rather than a new car ... :whistle:
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Simon_100
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by Simon_100 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:44 pm

The Spanish Biker wrote:We get an amazing amount of sun here but even still when we refurbish the cottage we're thinking of just solar heat exchangers for the hot water rather than a solar electricity system - we probably won't be around long enough to enjoy the saving - but a small dedicated system for topping up the car would make sense.
What I'm asking here is whether there is a sort of 'trickle charge' sighted that would require all the controls stuff and batteries, just charge the car direct while it's parked up.

As for the trips away - from the often -15º winter climate! - we have place(s) in an underground car parking just fifty metres from the train/coach station, where i could also leave the car plugged into the mains, along with the bikes, Lada, etc, as I do now ... (thumbs)

Regs

Simon
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Trev
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by Trev » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:07 pm

Gavinskii wrote:I am going to share my story.

In Sept 2014 I was collected by a friend of mine (who works in motor trade to go to a TRF meeting). It was dark and I was religated to the back seat being 3rd man collected). I was amazingly impressed by the comfort and legroom (being over 6ft tall) and wanted to know what car it was? A 100% electric Nissan Leaf was the answer...
I started taking the p155 and made references to milk floats and range. Then he put his foot down and I was smitten by the torque and acceleration and the promise of a genuine 100 mile range.

That night I did some surfing and thinking and I figured my 4x4 was depreciating at close to £2k per year and the road tax was circa £280 per year, then there was the servicing £400 a year and MOT and the fact that for most of my local journeys it was an inconvenience to park and then there was the 35mpg for my typical 8000 miles a year motoring (at almost £1200 a year)

Next day I was on the phone to a few Nissan main dealers and 2 years ago I leased a top of the range Nissan Leaf Tekna a circa £30k car (Leather, sat nav, heated steering wheel, remote vehicle heating (from my smartphone) nice alloys, 360 camera, top hifi, bluetooth etc) for the princely sum of £200 deposit and £160 a month for 23 months. By my reckoning they were paying me (and some) to have a brand new car and if I didn't like it I would just hand it back.

2 years later, the battery is still running at over 99% efficiency, and forgetting the fact that I have solar power at home, I use the onboard charge controller to switch on to off peak electricity to charge at night when I am sleeping, and I calculated it cost 1.7p a mile to run (no road tax, no congestion charge, no servicing and no depreciation or MOT). The acceleration is far better than officially declared (probably 0-60 in 6.5sec) and for me a typical day doesn't involve more than 40 miles driving, so I get 2+ days driving for basically bugger all.

My lease on the Leaf runs out at the end of this month and the GFV was set at £15.5k, however these cars depreciate like a falling stone. So Nissan are offering leasers the chance to buy the cars outright for the CAP value, which for my car with 16,000 miles is £9900. Even better still they will let me pay for it interest free over 3 years!!!

My guess is that all the naysayers who are reading these topics now, in future years won't be brave enough to spend £30-40k on say the Tesla 3 family car with a likely 200+ mile realistic range (due out in probably 2018 and already pre-sold based on £2k deposits lodged), might however be tempted by one of the current crop of "earlier" EV vehicles which should still be good for £6k resale value ( and judging by the reports I have seen of 100k mile Leafs coming off contract hire - they still retain at least 85% battery capacity).

Failing that, there are plenty of crofting / rural / holiday cottage / static home type communities that are virtually off the grid who will pay good money for battery packs which have passed their best for car use, but would be ideal to store solar / wind turbine charge to power their properties.
This isn't fanciful thinking, it's already happening
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/15/ni ... y-storage/

BTW I have to admit, that I have 4 other IC powered cars (and various motorbikes) in my household at my disposal for doing longer journeys. So at present I just use this for my short localish journeys and in 2 years have only ever used a public fast charger maybe half a dozen times.

As a second vehicle they take some beating IMHO.

The next generation EV's will really make the average person sit up and take notice.
Nice to hear real world experience from someone who has actually done it. I 'only' have a PHEV rather than full electric (Volvo V60) as at the moment I still need to undertake regular 300 mile (or more) round trips but seriously considering a BMW i3 to replace it next year as I have just bought a decent van which will likely be used for many of the longer trips. For me a bike is for fun, a car for transport, don't need anything flash (hence a Volvo!) but I do like my tech and not much more techy than a full carbon fibre bodyshell and space age interior to compliment the EV benefits.

SteveR
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by SteveR » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:19 pm

The Spanish Biker wrote:
The Spanish Biker wrote:We get an amazing amount of sun here but even still when we refurbish the cottage we're thinking of just solar heat exchangers for the hot water rather than a solar electricity system - we probably won't be around long enough to enjoy the saving - but a small dedicated system for topping up the car would make sense.
What I'm asking here is whether there is a sort of 'trickle charge' sighted that would require all the controls stuff and batteries, just charge the car direct while it's parked up.

As for the trips away - from the often -15º winter climate! - we have place(s) in an underground car parking just fifty metres from the train/coach station, where i could also leave the car plugged into the mains, along with the bikes, Lada, etc, as I do now ... (thumbs)

Regs

Simon
Maplins and numerous other folks flog cheap and cheerful PV panels that you can in effect, just hook up to your battery to maintain it. Some cars will have a 12v fag lighter socket permanently live, then you can easily pop a male plug from the panel into.

robson
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by robson » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:33 pm

sometimes people are desperate for boost

Image

Simon_100
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by Simon_100 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:01 am

SteveR wrote:
The Spanish Biker wrote:
The Spanish Biker wrote:We get an amazing amount of sun here but even still when we refurbish the cottage we're thinking of just solar heat exchangers for the hot water rather than a solar electricity system - we probably won't be around long enough to enjoy the saving - but a small dedicated system for topping up the car would make sense.
What I'm asking here is whether there is a sort of 'trickle charge' sighted that would require all the controls stuff and batteries, just charge the car direct while it's parked up.

As for the trips away - from the often -15º winter climate! - we have place(s) in an underground car parking just fifty metres from the train/coach station, where i could also leave the car plugged into the mains, along with the bikes, Lada, etc, as I do now ... (thumbs)

Regs

Simon
Maplins and numerous other folks flog cheap and cheerful PV panels that you can in effect, just hook up to your battery to maintain it. Some cars will have a 12v fag lighter socket permanently live, then you can easily pop a male plug from the panel into.
So do you think I could put a few on the roof rack of the Niva and just run it off the stater motor - after all it's probably more powerful than the engine ... :whistle:

Regs

Simon
Be sure to visit www.thespanishbiker.com the invaluable guide to motorcycling in Spain - plus guided rides, HISS Events* and off road touring support service



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Arthur Pint Motor
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by Arthur Pint Motor » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:52 am

Watty2016 wrote:Right I am going to call it out, all this press coverage on electric motor cars and now motorcycles, what has the world been smoking!!!!!

Electricity, produced mostly by burning fossil fuels and nuclear power, so what is cleaner petrol powered cars/motorbikes or fossil/nuclear powered cars/motorbikes, well nuclear never disappears, you bury it and it is still there in over a 100 years later smouldering and poisoning the earth and then you have fossil fuels creating more pollution than any petrol car ever can, so please please stop this madness, electric cars and bikes are not the solution.

Rant over and off to fill up my petrol powered motorbike. :sick:
It's all about efficiency!

An electric motor is hugely more efficient in city traffic than any combustion engine. They are also much nicer to drive at low speeds, with non of the lag and surge you get with combustion engines.

Electric vehicles also recover a large proportion of the wasted energy from braking and descending hills.

I would much rather sit behind an EV or HEV in traffic than a belching diesel.

I won't be going back to diesel, I drive much less aggressively in my HEV than I ever did with diesel vehicles - the power characteristics are so much "nicer". It makes zero difference to journey times and the world is a slightly nicer place because of it.

I am concerned about how the batteries will eventualy get recycled. But 45MPG average for a 2.5L petrol/hyrid with nearly 200BHP is pretty decent efficiency. OK it uses 20% more fuel than my previous diesel but it puts out a lot less NOX and particulates.

Simmo24
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by Simmo24 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:04 pm

Every insurer just about will insure EVs, and mine is way cheaper than my old X5. I have the BMW i3. Best car I ever owned. £2.70 for 80 miles of charge, 170bhp instant torque on tap (you won't lose the traffic light GP). oh, and batteries warranted for 8 years.

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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by SteveW » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:51 pm

I drove this to Bulgaria and back a couple of months ago, petrol/hybrid thingy....Okay for a car, but still shit because it's got four wheels and rear seats.
You can make them as fast and efficient as you want, they still have to queue at traffic lights, get stuck in traffic jams and they are boring.
Somewhere in Austria I think......
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catcitrus
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Re: Electric bikes and cars - get real

Post by catcitrus » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:17 pm

I have just one comment about Photo voltaics(solar panels)--incident energy is about 200W /m2 if you are lucky--then add in all the inefficiencies. Solar farms might make sense but a few panels on a house is a complete con--and certainly won't charge up an EV unless you use it only once a week for a short trip. What I call solar panels--for heating water --makes much more sense--but you need a massive underground insulated tank to store the "warm" water--and then a heat pump can be used to generate high temperature water for heating purposes. If you want to generate your own power then a decently sized wind turbine is required--and some large ex submarine lead acid batteries for storage--and of course you have to be able to erect the bloody thing in the first place.

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