If It Ain't A Harley...

Bikers and riding
Mike101
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by Mike101 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:00 am

A former neighbour of mine imported Corvettes, which were like this, Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks are like this, Harleys are like this and I'm told that even Cessna light aircraft are like this.

I can confirm this about all american built light aircraft. The engines are still based on the VW 4,6 or 8 cylinder boxer design....using push rods. Nothing has changed really since the 1950's. The addition of turbos got more power but this only works for larger weight machines such as 6 seaters.

If you walk aroudn any airfield and loko at 95% of the kit fyling you will see that it is US made and of very very old technology. There are 1 or 2 exceptions but not many.

However if you look at modern european aircraft you will see brand new designed engines that use half the fuel of the old type, are so much more reliable and deliver many more times the power for their weight.

Let me give you and example.

A Cessena 152 built in say 1980 will hvae a 100HP lycoming 5ltr engine in it. This will use up to 30ltrs and hour of avgas...very expensive.

A modern AT4 built in the past 5 years will have a rotax 912 100hp engine in it. This will use 15lts of petrol an hour.

So the point here is that in the US they have a proven record of sticking to what works rather than changing with modern technology. Also the US market seems not to desire such new technical advances like we in europe do.

Mike
And the beast shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts

Adventure Bike Rider New Issue Out Now
Crossrutted
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:18 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by Crossrutted » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:15 am

Mike101 wrote: Nothing has changed really since the 1950's.
Let me give you and example.

A Cessena 152 built in say 1980 will hvae a 100HP lycoming 5ltr engine in it. This will use up to 30ltrs and hour of avgas...very expensive.

A modern AT4 built in the past 5 years will have a rotax 912 100hp engine in it. This will use 15lts of petrol an hour.

So the point here is that in the US they have a proven record of sticking to what works rather than changing with modern technology. Also the US market seems not to desire such new technical advances like we in europe do.

Mike
This appalling lack of fuel efficiency development has been made possible by the scandalous availability of cheap fossils fuels in the USA.

( and no, I'm not a tree hugging Eco warrior!)

User avatar
OB1
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:37 am
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk
Has thanked: 502 times
Been thanked: 230 times

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by OB1 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:19 am

Mike101 wrote:

So the point here is that in the US they have a proven record of sticking to what works rather than changing with modern technology. Also the US market seems not to desire such new technical advances like we in europe do.

Mike
Don't the Yanks still use leaf springs on some of their cars and trucks? :S
A • AND • B • CDN • CH • CN • CY • CYM • CZ • D • DK • E • EST • ET • F • FIN • GR • HK • HR • I • IL • IRL • L • LT • LV • M • N • N-IRL • NL • P • PL • Q • RSM • S • SCO • SCV • SLO • TR • USA • YU
https://ob1uk.wordpress.com

User avatar
g00ner
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:18 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by g00ner » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:26 am

I used to like Harleys - could see myself getting one one day when I'm old ;)

That was then, since a Harley dealership opened near me I could happily go down there on a Sunday morning and squirt expanding foam up all their exhaust pipes

Mike101
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by Mike101 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:42 am

Crossrutted wrote:
Mike101 wrote: Nothing has changed really since the 1950's.
Let me give you and example.

A Cessena 152 built in say 1980 will hvae a 100HP lycoming 5ltr engine in it. This will use up to 30ltrs and hour of avgas...very expensive.

A modern AT4 built in the past 5 years will have a rotax 912 100hp engine in it. This will use 15lts of petrol an hour.

So the point here is that in the US they have a proven record of sticking to what works rather than changing with modern technology. Also the US market seems not to desire such new technical advances like we in europe do.

Mike
This appalling lack of fuel efficiency development has been made possible by the scandalous availability of cheap fossils fuels in the USA.

( and no, I'm not a tree hugging Eco warrior!)
Why change if their market is not asking for change?

I spent 3 months in New York earlier this year and got a good understanding on the US culture and way of life. Every thought or decesion we make is based upon or culture, education, upbringing and many other referance points around us.

Almost all of these referance points are so different in the US so what seems mad to us is the norm over there.

Over a beer with a mate we worked out the cost of living in the US compared to the UK. I broadly worked out that the yanks are about 10% better off than we are.

Another topic is the US steel industry. We all rememebr the pain here in the UK with strikes and many job losses in the steel industry. I cannot comment on the rights or wrongs of this as i wasn not there but it did lead to a very lean UK stell industry using the very best production methods in the world making the best steel.

In the US they have not gone through this and still to this day make poor quality steel that is very costly to produce. A few years ago the US market was buying european stell and not US steel. This threatened the entire US steel industry....and so what was the outcome...a huge levy was palced on all imported stell..making it so expensive that US steel was the marlet leader again.

Mike
And the beast shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts

devon john
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:48 pm
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by devon john » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:04 am

one thing is missing the big twin Harleys are economical at around 50-60mpg .

and the older one are easy fix bikes,

thers a big demand for early (pre evo) Harleys Japan, USSR,and China are buying up every thing in the states at high prices .
most knockers have never rode one :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:

john

Mike101
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by Mike101 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:14 am

devon john wrote:one thing is missing the big twin Harleys are economical at around 50-60mpg .

and the older one are easy fix bikes,

thers a big demand for early (pre evo) Harleys Japan, USSR,and China are buying up every thing in the states at high prices .
most knockers have never rode one :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:

john
I'm not a harley knocker..i like the engines a lot.

What i don't like is the fake image that most harley riders create. I used to work with a guy who rode a harley...all was fine unilt one day he bent over and we saw his harley grundies.....oh we took the piss big time.

Mike
And the beast shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts

Crossrutted
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:18 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 66 times

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by Crossrutted » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:59 am

Mike101 wrote:
Crossrutted wrote:
Mike101 wrote: Nothing has changed really since the 1950's.
Let me give you and example.

A Cessena 152 built in say 1980 will hvae a 100HP lycoming 5ltr engine in it. This will use up to 30ltrs and hour of avgas...very expensive.

A modern AT4 built in the past 5 years will have a rotax 912 100hp engine in it. This will use 15lts of petrol an hour.

So the point here is that in the US they have a proven record of sticking to what works rather than changing with modern technology. Also the US market seems not to desire such new technical advances like we in europe do.

Mike
This appalling lack of fuel efficiency development has been made possible by the scandalous availability of cheap fossils fuels in the USA.

( and no, I'm not a tree hugging Eco warrior!)
Why change if their market is not asking for change?

I spent 3 months in New York earlier this year and got a good understanding on the US culture and way of life. Every thought or decesion we make is based upon or culture, education, upbringing and many other referance points around us.

Almost all of these referance points are so different in the US so what seems mad to us is the norm over there.

Over a beer with a mate we worked out the cost of living in the US compared to the UK. I broadly worked out that the yanks are about 10% better off than we are.

Another topic is the US steel industry. We all rememebr the pain here in the UK with strikes and many job losses in the steel industry. I cannot comment on the rights or wrongs of this as i wasn not there but it did lead to a very lean UK stell industry using the very best production methods in the world making the best steel.

In the US they have not gone through this and still to this day make poor quality steel that is very costly to produce. A few years ago the US market was buying european stell and not US steel. This threatened the entire US steel industry....and so what was the outcome...a huge levy was palced on all imported stell..making it so expensive that US steel was the marlet leader again.

Mike
Another examples of how the USA wastes GLOBAL resources - and when their resources are gone?

AndyB
Posts: 8747
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by AndyB » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:13 pm

I loved riding my 883 and could even forgive the abysmal tank range because it just looked right having a small tank on it but maybe I ended up with a Friday afternoon bike that was bolted together after they's sunk a few beers at lunchtime.

When I took it in for its 1st service I mentioned to the mechanic that it was too quiet for my liking so he quickly took a tapered steel spike from his toolbox and proceeded to bang it into the end of each silencer going up to a line marked on the spike. When we fired it up it was noticeably louder and he showed me different marks on the spike that corresponded to different noise levels from dead quiet to a little bit noisier then barely legal and finishing at downright offensive :pinch:

We settled for barely legal and the mechanic said you only needed to worry about jetting if you took the hole out to the maximum and actually damaged the baffles.

This aspect of Harley ownership appealed to me because you wouldn't get a mechanic doing that to a Japanese bike during the 1st service but the reliability and niggling faults drove me to get rid of it in the end. I might get another one at some point in the future but it won't be one that looks like a xmas sledge and weighs more than the average family car. If I was going to do that I might as well by a Goldwing or a GSA.

Dazzer
Posts: 1261
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:53 pm

Re: If It Ain't A Harley...

Post by Dazzer » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:33 pm

Sorry posted twice.

Post Reply

Return to “ADVENTURE BIKE RIDER”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BobH, timwil and 42 guests